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-   -   Gun control failed in congress. It's happening anyway (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/gun-control-failed-congress-its-happening-anyway-97308/)

Edward14 09-19-2013 06:39 AM

Gun control failed in congress. It's happening anyway
 
Gun control failed in congress. It's happening anyway !!!
Between Newtown and the Navy Yard, President Obama launched 25 separate initiatives?and there's little the NRA can do to stop them.

http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com...page_fullwidth

Gun control legislation failed loudly following the Newtown school shooting, but that has not stopped President Obama from leaving Congress behind to launch a broad gun control campaign of his own.
Between the December 2012 massacre and the Navy Yard mass shooting Monday, Obama has taken 25 separate gun control initiatives, all of which came from executive actions that did not require congressional authorization.

Read the article: http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/gun-control-failed-in-congress-it-s-happening-anyway-20130917

Chainfire 09-19-2013 09:45 AM

I read the list and I find no fault with the largest part of it. The whole premise of the article is intended for people to read the title and presume that some great gun grab has been foisted on us by the president. They depend on the tweet generation not reading the two articles to access the article accurately.

In the five years the President has been in office, I have not lost any gun rights, and I challenge anyone here to come up with any Federal legislation that has made the purchase of firearms of ammunition more difficult.

If you are upset that the President has tried to make it more difficult for felons or the mentally incompetent from legally accessing firearms, so be it. Personally I am fine with either having a more difficult time trying to arm themselves.

The "slippery-slope" and "domino theories" as applied to the present subject, lost credibility with me during the build-up to the Vietnam war.

rick-ky 09-19-2013 10:31 AM

I have to agree - certainly none of those executive actions sound like an assault on gun rights, and many of them are surprising only in that they had not already been in place. I don't understand in particular the opposition to background checks: how can we claim that the dramatic instances of gun violence are the result of inappropriate/unstable people getting guns they shouldn't have, while in the same breath opposing the safeguards that might have made it more difficult for them to get them?

Certainly the bulk of the pro-gun-control argument is misguided and indicative of a lack of understanding of the subject; phrases like "a semi-automatic weapon may have been used" in news reports make me cringe, and most of the 'assault-weapons' features that they would like to ban are more cosmetic than functional and have more to do with giving the appearance of taking action than with any aspect of public safety. But like many issues, this is not something that is made better by angry shouting matches, and I think there's room for a whole lot more rational thought on both sides than I've been observing recently.

WebleyFosbery38 09-19-2013 11:24 AM

"Between the December 2012 massacre and the Navy Yard mass shooting Monday, Obama has taken 25 separate gun control initiatives, all of which came from executive actions that did not require congressional authorization"

Mass Shooting and Massacre, really, those were massacres??? Hmmm, me thinks they are using scary words not facts to scare sheeples into giving up our rights FOOG!

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
EMBARGOED UNTIL THE START OF THE PRESIDENT’S REMARKS
January 16, 2013
Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions
Today, the President is announcing that he and the Administration will:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
Fettering- Make Relevant data available means no restrictions on sharing private data, no courts needed, wrong

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
Fettering- Address unnecessary legal barriers, means no restrictions on sharing private data, no courts needed, wrong

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
Fettering- States have different policies and laws, you cant mandate they act the same, Wrong

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Fettering- Like Mexican Druglords?, No actually he means US Citizens, wrong

5. Propose rule making to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
Fettering- This way they can eliminate that pesky grandfather clause thingy, wrong

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
Fettering-No legal right to require an outside businesses involvement in a private sale of a legally owned firearm, wrong

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
Fettering-Another waste of millions when there are already great campaigns being sponsored by Gun Owners, wrong

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Fettering- another law that limits the effectiveness of a weapon in an SD situation, wrong

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Fettering- says nothing about ensuring they are returned to their rightful owners if they commited no crime

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
Im OK with this

11. Nominate an ATF director.
Fettering- no, close the ATF doors for good, they Fetter us


12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
Im OK with this but what he signed actually only sponsors more couselors after the fact, Wrong

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Fettering- the focus should be to prevent Violence and prosecute Crime period, Wrong

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Fettering- the focus should be to prevent Violence and prosecute Crime period, Wrong

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Fettering- when the technology is requested by the possible owners, industry will provide the solution we want, not before, Wrong

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Fettering- How about clarifying that its none of my Doctors F'n Business unless I say it is, Wrong

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
Fettering- Ever hear of a little thing called HIPPA?????? Wrong

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Fettering- note they didnt say security officers, they mean counselors, Wrong

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Fettering- Dont need a law, each place should do that for themselves, based on their needs the same way we do fire drills, Wrong

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
Im OK with this but it has nothing to do with legal gun ownership

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
Im OK with this but it has nothing to do with legal gun ownership

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
fettering- More HIPPA violations, Wrong

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
Fettering, they are trying to link Firearm Ownership with Mental Instability, wrong



Its all mostly BS aimed directly at legal firearm ownership in the USA and will do nothing to prevent criminal violence! They know the only real and lasting way to effect the 2A is a Constitutional Convention and a vote, neither of which has a Snowballs chance in hell of passing muster, so out comes the Dicto-Pen and were eating his crap until we can elect a Constitutional President!

NC1760 09-19-2013 12:04 PM

Let the panic begin !!....
 
Fear mongering... That's all this is. I'm gonna step on some toes here, but I also gotta speak my mind....
..Now before anyone plays the "the sheep will believe, follow, blah blah blah" song again... In a sense there are more than one kind of flock… 1) Those that are staunchly anti-gun and will use any opportunity to soap-box pulpit… but they failed last time even when they claimed to have “the momentum” of the public…
2) Those that panic and buy at inflated prices simply out of fear… Retailers LOVE these people and they at least stimulate the economy, but 6 to 8 months to get ammo alone back on the shelves so I can go plinking??? DAMN THEM!! … and finally 3) The lockstep NRA member who won’t even consider any meaningful proposals to shore up background checks, close gun show loopholes, straw sales and parking lot deals (even ONE of those is one too many) or even agree that there needs to be a Federal national reciprocity for carry & conceal in all 50 states (BOTH sides claim it’s a “state's issue” ... thus keeping the current stalemate status quo of an "Us vs. Them"… but personally I feel for my fellow gun enthusiast in California, New York, Illinois, New England area, etc. etc. etc.) while they walk around advocating and performing open carry acts of stupidity that simply enforces the general public’s fear of guns & gun owners….. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/28/man-who-brought-ar-15-into-grocery-store-to-face-no-criminal-charges/ .....an AR15 across your back to go to the Kroger ??? To "prove a point" ??? Really ???
So honestly now, which one do you fall into ??? I FULLY expect some people to get upset here... but you need to be honest with yourself and realize when you're being snowed and herded into a panic situation by either side!!!
Myself... I still prefer to call a “Sheepdog”. Concealed means concealed!! What the public doesn't know won't hurt them and I'm sure they'll be glad someone responsible IS prepared when a wolf shows up....

Besides, MSNBC & Fox have reported he actually didn’t use any type of AR or “assault” weapon… The forum postings and comments left on social media are calling the networks and Anti’s to task… Hell, from another thread here, even CNN ran this commentary from one of its OWN writers; http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/opinion/granderson-gun-control-fail/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So to think that this is going to be as bad of a situation as last time in terms of public & media perception… or government interference … Don’t think so. Sure, SOME people will still panic slightly, but most of us are more level headed and even prepared this time around. We've been here before and we'll be here again (unfortunately).

TDS92A 09-19-2013 12:57 PM

Acceptible Gun Control.
 
Here are a few forms of Acceptible Gun Control that none of us seem to mind:

1) Age limits on purchasing firearms.

2) Felons being barred from owning or possessing firearms.

3) Folks with specific mental problems being barred from owning or possessing firearms.

4) Requiring attendence in a Firearm Training Class or providing a DD214 before getting a Carry Permit.

This is my personal one; buying or selling a firearm from or to someone that I hardly know (Gun Shows) or even some family members, I am getting a background check.

This is about all that I can come up with since I have not had the USDA not recommended amount of coffee just yet.

Feel free to yell and scream if you like.

wittmeba 09-19-2013 01:37 PM

It seems our government is trying to do exactly what the better law enforcement suggests not doing.


That is:

Don't try to find some other reason to arrest someone just because you don't like what they are doing and what they are doing is perfectly legal.

Our government can't find a way rightfully take our guns so they try in every way to make it difficult to own a gun by manipulating the associated laws.

kryptar19 09-19-2013 01:44 PM

THERE IS NO "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No matter where an FFL goes, they are REQUIRED to have the purchaser fill out a 4473 and do a background check.

I should NOT have to do a background check to give a gun as a gift.
I should NOT have to do a background check to sell a gun to my buddy.

CrazedJava 09-19-2013 02:08 PM

Good grief. I am so sick of this "sky is falling" attitude.

Man up. Grow a pair. There is a fine line between staying vigilant and outright paranoia.

Most of the Executive Actions/Orders were done post-Newtown. I'm sure there will be more. Obama feels the need to "do something" but he is increasingly looking like an empty suit to his own supporters.

The gun control rhetoric is ALREADY dying down. They know it is a loser issue. As the facts have come out and media establishments have ended up with egg on their face there is a lot of foot shuffling and nervous glancing about in embarrassment, but no serious talk of gun control.

This was not the mass shooting they were hoping for.

However, we are not helping our case by panicking either. Be ever watchful and look for real threats. Let's not wear ourselves out over nothing.

S-101hat 09-23-2013 08:19 AM

The only one I have a problem with is the doctor asking if you own guns. The reason being is that it can be abused if the doctor is not pro 2nd amendment. They have the ability to rule you mentally disturbed or a danger to others, just because they don't agree with your views.


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