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Old 05-13-2010, 11:09 PM   #11
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^^^ Maybe your "Nan" would accept some pepper spray or a tazer? My grandmother's barky little chihuahua scared a burglar into diving through a closed window one night, as her .38 sat on the dresser. That dog ate very well after that. Something is better than nothing.
Nope.
She is totally non-violent,and I respect her position.
As long as she understands its also a personal choice to keep arms for ones defense.
But rather than appreciate personal liberty,she believes in 'gun control'.
She believes the government should have a monopoly on force and 'deal with' the criminals,and that the 'average person' should not have access to arms.
Like I said-I'll not upset her with argument,but it is a very erroneous position.

One of my favorite quotes for dealing with non violent people who insist on using government to restrict the natural right of others to choose to forcefully defend themselves is:

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
Mahatma Ghandi

Even the Guru of passive resistance understood that it is an act of tyrannical violence to deprive people of their natural right to defend themselves with arms.
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:54 PM   #12
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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
Mahatma Ghandi

Even the Guru of passive resistance understood that it is an act of tyrannical violence to deprive people of their natural right to defend themselves with arms.
HA! that used to be my sig line! Gandhi was not the pacifist the hippies tell you he was, he simply didn't believe that violence was the most effective solution to the particular fight he faced. Turns out he was right. He also said that, given the choice between taking up arms and being enslaved, he would surely take up arms, though I forget the exact wording at the moment.
I had a minor victory a few weeks ago: A friend from a very left-wing anti-gun family was over for drinks, and gun control came up. He stated the typical rhetoric, then allowed me to make several arguments from several different perspectives and show some statistics to support my position. After I was done, he conceded that he hadn't ever looked at things that way, nor was he aware of the facts and figures involved, and told me I had changed his mind. It is not a hopeless cause, gents! Shed light on the ignorant whenever appropriate!
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:15 AM   #13
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KJ
Well, if she's very non-violent, maybe she is an animal lover; a small barky dog might buy her enough time to dial 911 or hide. I feel your pain; one of my sisters is much the same way.

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Old 05-14-2010, 05:33 AM   #14
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Good show Daggle! The two folks I was able to enlighten were convinced kinda the same way, I even convinced them to go shooting with me. Now one of them is a gun LOVER with many more guns than I have, the other only has two guns but loves to shoot. Sucsess!! We should all try to get two converts a year!

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Old 05-14-2010, 10:50 PM   #15
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Good job gents-hoplophobia is a mental disorder that is usually curable by doses of the readily available,low cost wonder-drug called 'TRUTH'.

Apply 'liberally'.......

My only caveat is that you dont want to upset fragile people.

Sometimes the side effects of 'TRUTH';like having to reassess ones belief system and personal ideology,can be very demanding.

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Old 05-14-2010, 10:53 PM   #16
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KJ
Well, if she's very non-violent, maybe she is an animal lover; a small barky dog might buy her enough time to dial 911 or hide. I feel your pain; one of my sisters is much the same way.
She has a dog.
In my experience-dogs are pets unless otherwise trained.

All we can hope for,for members of our family who are sick with hoplophobia,is that they dont have to pay for their illness with their lives.
While it may be our job to defend them if need be,we cant be there for them at all times,nor can we expect our fellow citizens -even the police- to provide defense for them.In fact,the Supreme Court has ruled that it is not the job of the police to provide protection.
And as much as it pains me to say it-by them espousing 'gun control' they cannot expect nor demand the protection of armed defenders.
If they would agree to disarm their fellow citizen and make them victims over their misguided ideology,then they cant expect the benefits of armed defense if a criminal who pays no heed to their championed 'gun control' 'laws' comes to harm them.

Harsh,but true.

You reap what you sow,says the good book.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:24 AM   #17
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And as much as it pains me to say it-by them espousing 'gun control' they cannot expect nor demand the protection of armed defenders.
If they would agree to disarm their fellow citizen and make them victims over their misguided ideology,then they cant expect the benefits of armed defense if a criminal who pays no heed to their championed 'gun control' 'laws' comes to harm them.
Well said. If people were forced to suffer the consequences of the implementation of their beliefs, natural selection would pick off a significant portion of the population in a hurry. Think animal testing is evil? Great! Enjoy dying from your easily controllable diabetes because insulin was tested on dogs. Oppose genetically modified food? Well you're in luck, because genetically modified grains have saved over 1 billion people since 1942, so you can now hope you're not part of the 1/6th of the population about to starve to death.
Too many people eat the fruit of the work they oppose.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:05 PM   #18
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My stepfather is a Rabbi.
I sometimes argue with my stepfather over the issues,but its like trying to convince that horse you led to the well to drink the water.
He'd rather have 'kool-aid' anyway-calls our Founding Fathers 'racist,elitist slave owners' like all the other subversive Marxist scum like to do.
The idea that a Rabbi would refer to the Founding Fathers as "racist,elitist slave owners" is downright hilarious considering the greatest leaders of the Nation of Israel were genocidal slave owners who killed others (or had them killed) not only for their property, but to take their wives. Few peoples in this world are actually proud of the fact that they have been repeatedly punished by God, even to the brink of extermination, for being wanton and immoral.
Note: What Nazi Germany did was done by men; not God....and no, I am not anti-Jew. History is history.

Gun control: The concept that only the government and criminals have firearms rights; and the idea that a woman raped and beaten to death or a family butchered by home invaders are morally superior to those that use a firearm to defend themselves.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:18 PM   #19
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people who dont own a gun are considered a target and a victim in the criminals mind and open season to take what from you arm yourself and we will have less and less criminals----remember its better to have and not need than need and not have

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Old 05-15-2010, 03:16 PM   #20
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She has a dog.
In my experience-dogs are pets unless otherwise trained.
I don't think that is always the case. My grandmother's lil Chihuahua was so loud that it scared a burglar into diving through a closed window to get out of her house. An aunt i had also had several instances in which her untrained dog instinctively seperated questionable persons from her personal space. I'm not a big fan of dogs personally, but many of them do seem to have natural protective instincts towards their "family". Even the little lap dogs that seem so useless seem to bark at strangers and unexpected noises which might give the owner time to make a call to 911 or something of the sort.
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