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Old 01-11-2014, 07:22 PM   #71
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it hinges on the attitude the person has. plenty of YouTube videos of open carriers tyring to bait cops into acting wrongly and video taping the confrontations.

how about the guy who goes to the grocery store with an AR or an AK strapped across his back? the guy is looking to make a statement, not excercise his rights.

i'm sorry, but there is a huge difference in excercising your rights and acting like a douchebag. how you approach doing something and a person's attitude when they are confronted are the key factors.
I know what your saying, but if they are not breaking a law, it's really none of the cops business. Its not against the law to be stupid or a douchebag, so if a cop is acting wrong, it the cop that is in the wrong.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:32 PM   #72
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I know what your saying, but if they are not breaking a law, it's really none of the cops business. Its not against the law to be stupid or a douchebag, so if a cop is acting wrong, it the cop that is in the wrong.
I hear what you're saying, but I agree with Axxe on this one. Attitude does matter. If the cop is looking for a chance to enforce an agenda (like this cop did), then the cop is in the wrong. But a lot of the YouTube activists go out of their way to provoke a interview with a cop. What you are suggesting is that the cop should just ignore the douchebag. Sounds great until said douchebag escalates his provocation. If the attitude of the subject is "I'm going to provoke a confrontation to prove a point", then that subject may go to any lengths to accomplish that. The cop could be better off intervening before the douchebag does something even more stupid and possibly more dangerous.

"It's not against the law to be stupid..." But when the subject is stupid and armed, the cop may need to decide whether he is dangerous. Better to be armed and well behaved.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:34 PM   #73
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I know what your saying, but if they are not breaking a law, it's really none of the cops business. Its not against the law to be stupid or a douchebag, so if a cop is acting wrong, it the cop that is in the wrong.
just being in the right doesn't make a person's actions proper either. drawing attention to one's self is usually a way to bring trouble into your life. a person who draws attention is looking to make a political statement or to try and draw a LEO into making himself look bad or do something wrong.

sorry, i have nothing against those who open carry in a responsible manner, but there are some looking to make fools out themselves to prove a point and are doing much more harm than good. they are setting a bad example of what responsible and law abiding gun owners are about.

and provoking an officer into making a mistake is clearly wrong just to make a political statement and drives a further rift between LE and the citizens.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:38 PM   #74
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I hear what you're saying, but I agree with Axxe on this one. Attitude does matter. If the cop is looking for a chance to enforce an agenda (like this cop did), then the cop is in the wrong. But a lot of the YouTube activists go out of their way to provoke a interview with a cop. What you are suggesting is that the cop should just ignore the douchebag. Sounds great until said douchebag escalates his provocation. If the attitude of the subject is "I'm going to provoke a confrontation to prove a point", then that subject may go to any lengths to accomplish that. The cop could be better off intervening before the douchebag does something even more stupid and possibly more dangerous.

"It's not against the law to be stupid..." But when the subject is stupid and armed, the cop may need to decide whether he is dangerous. Better to be armed and well behaved.
I don't totally agree with the guys that carry an AR in town to make a point, but it is not breaking any law. The cop don't need to ignore him, but if upon finding out that the guy means no harm, and is breaking no law, he should move along and let the citizen be on his way. Maybe if people got used to seeing people with guns, it wouldn't be such a big deal.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:41 PM   #75
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I know what your saying, but if they are not breaking a law, it's really none of the cops business. Its not against the law to be stupid or a douchebag, so if a cop is acting wrong, it the cop that is in the wrong.
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I hear what you're saying, but I agree with Axxe on this one. Attitude does matter. If the cop is looking for a chance to enforce an agenda (like this cop did), then the cop is in the wrong. But a lot of the YouTube activists go out of their way to provoke a interview with a cop. What you are suggesting is that the cop should just ignore the douchebag. Sounds great until said douchebag escalates his provocation. If the attitude of the subject is "I'm going to provoke a confrontation to prove a point", then that subject may go to any lengths to accomplish that. The cop could be better off intervening before the douchebag does something even more stupid and possibly more dangerous.

"It's not against the law to be stupid..." But when the subject is stupid and armed, the cop may need to decide whether he is dangerous. Better to be armed and well behaved.
thanks Balota for helping me express my comment a little more clearly.

a member here on the forum open carries and he does so in a smaller town and most people don't even many time even realize he's carrying openly. why? simply because he doesn't bring undue attention to himself. he keeps a lowered profile and goes about his business of caring for his son and doing things in a normal manner. that is how you exercise your rights in a responsible manner that sets a proper example of how people open carry.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:48 PM   #76
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I think it would be great if we lived in a country where I could bring my AR to Portland with out being questioned by the law dogs. Imagine a place where you are not looked down on for exercising your rights. And what are rights anyway if they can be taken away?

I also get a little kick out of these people make a fuss because someone walked in front of their church with a gun, but they claim to have a pistol in their pocket inside the church.

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Old 01-11-2014, 10:42 PM   #77
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Guys let's stick to the post at hand. This guy was doing nothing more than walking down the street. He had no camera crew. He had no attitude. He was doing nothing wrong. Why did the cop bother him? Why didn't the cop simply walk up to the guy and have a civil conversation? If I'm driving down the road in a 4000 lb. vehicle and doing nothing wrong I don't get ordered to the ground. I don't get harassed. That car is just as deadly as a pistol.
We don't we arrest or stop and frisk or question people simply because they have the potential to commit a crime. If that were the case you'd be stopped every time you left your house. Oh look that guy has a penis, he could be a rapist. Oh look that woman has a vagina she could be a prostitute. Oh look that guy has hands he could be shop lifting. Oh look that guy has a rain coat he could be flashing children. Oh look he has matches he could be an arsonist. Where does it end?

There is no way in hell that supporters of 2A should be defending this officers behavior.

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Old 01-14-2014, 02:21 AM   #78
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Sticking to the OP, you are correct. The video showed no suggestion of questionable behavior on the part of the subject. He was not displaying an attitude. The officer was. The officer needs some corrective discipline.

Our comments about attitudes affecting how the cop should behave were a rabbit trail. I think attitudes do matter, but in this particular case, the subject was entirely in the right and the cop was entirely in the wrong.

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Old 01-14-2014, 02:25 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by MaineMan View Post
I think it would be great if we lived in a country where I could bring my AR to Portland with out being questioned by the law dogs. Imagine a place where you are not looked down on for exercising your rights. And what are rights anyway if they can be taken away?

I also get a little kick out of these people make a fuss because someone walked in front of their church with a gun, but they claim to have a pistol in their pocket inside the church.
I don't walk in front of my church open carrying... I walk INTO my church open carrying. The pastors have no problem with it. They've told me they will NEVER put a no-gun sign on their church.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:53 AM   #80
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I saw the video. There is no church in view of the officers dash cam. All the officer could see is a man walking with his back to the officer. The man open carrying did nothing unusual unless walking down the sidewalk is unusual. The officer said he detained the man to see if he is a felon. I don't see that as probable cause but I am not a lawyer. The officer could have got the mans weapon and ID without making him lay on the concrete for an extended period of time. Then again the open carrier could have cooperated without all the chin music. It appears that every word he said just aggravated the officer.

Here is a link to the 911 call and the dash cam footage. Today I have found several links to the same footage. They are being taken down very quickly. I don't know how long this link will last but here it is:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/see_unedited_encounter_between.html

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