Grand Rapids MI PD Response to Open Carrier - Page 7
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:28 AM   #61
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Federal law says you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun. States can write laws stricter than federal law but they cannot write laws that are less restrictive than federal law.
Its 21 to purchase from an ffl dealer but public sales are legal I'm Missouri
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:35 AM   #62
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Federal law says you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun. States can write laws stricter than federal law but they cannot write laws that are less restrictive than federal law.
federal law applies to an FFL dealer. in Texas you can purchase a handgun from an individual in a private party sale. in some states a person over the age of 18 can legally open carry a pistol.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:21 PM   #63
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Any of the "this is a false report" detractors watch the actual video yet and want to comment?

I understand the unedited version is even more damning, but I have not watched it. My blood was boiling after watching the edited video.

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:06 PM   #64
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I watched the edited version. That was enough for me. Here is what I saw: The officer got out of his car, drew his weapon at a large distance, commanded the subject to get on the ground (cold ground mind you), advanced on the subject with his gun pointed in the general direction of the subject AND directly at approaching vehicles. What was the officer going to do? Shoot through the vehicle if the subject moved? If I were the driver of that first vehicle I'd be considering legal action.

Walking around in public apparently talking to himself. That may have been part of the description from the person who called in the complaint. But the officer says at the beginning of the video he appears to be talking to himself. He says that from inside a police car over a block BEHIND the subject. He can't see his face, can't tell if he's talking at all, certainly can't hear him talking, has no idea what he's saying or doing.

Did you know there are people who pray out loud? They pray when they go for a drive, when they sit down in a restaurant to eat, and yes, even when they are just walking down the street. Is that illegal? Is that reasonable cause for an officer to draw his gun and command the subject to lay down on cold concrete for 10 minutes?

If the officer had approached the subject to determine what he was doing, found that he was behaving irrationally or threateningly, and decided to detain and disarm him, this would not be an issue. But the officer was the one behaving irrationally and threateningly.

I agree with the OP. Something needs to change in Grand Rapids if the officers are encouraged to handle this kind of situation in this way.

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:13 PM   #65
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I watched the edited version. That was enough for me. Here is what I saw: The officer got out of his car, drew his weapon at a large distance, commanded the subject to get on the ground (cold ground mind you), advanced on the subject with his gun pointed in the general direction of the subject AND directly at approaching vehicles. What was the officer going to do? Shoot through the vehicle if the subject moved? If I were the driver of that first vehicle I'd be considering legal action.

Walking around in public apparently talking to himself. That may have been part of the description from the person who called in the complaint. But the officer says at the beginning of the video he appears to be talking to himself. He says that from inside a police car over a block BEHIND the subject. He can't see his face, can't tell if he's talking at all, certainly can't hear him talking, has no idea what he's saying or doing.

Did you know there are people who pray out loud? They pray when they go for a drive, when they sit down in a restaurant to eat, and yes, even when they are just walking down the street. Is that illegal? Is that reasonable cause for an officer to draw his gun and command the subject to lay down on cold concrete for 10 minutes?

If the officer had approached the subject to determine what he was doing, found that he was behaving irrationally or threateningly, and decided to detain and disarm him, this would not be an issue. But the officer was the one behaving irrationally and threateningly.

I agree with the OP. Something needs to change in Grand Rapids if the officers are encouraged to handle this kind of situation in this way.
i was not aware that talking to yourself was reason to detain someone.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:42 PM   #66
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Might depend on what you were saying. For example, "That's the last straw. I'm tired of my kids beating me at Candy Crush. I'm going home and shooting them with this here pistol so they'll never beat me again..." Something like that might be a reason to detain. But the officer in the video had no idea whether the guy was actually talking or not, much less what he was saying.

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:47 PM   #67
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Might depend on what you were saying. For example, "That's the last straw. I'm tired of my kids beating me at Candy Crush. I'm going home and shooting them with this here pistol so they'll never beat me again..." Something like that might be a reason to detain. But the officer in the video had no idea whether the guy was actually talking or not, much less what he was saying.
exactly. if he couldn't hear the conversation, then how could he know the difference in the person reciting outloud their grocery list or making threats towards another person? answer, he couldn't.

i think the officer should have been more observant in his actions.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:51 PM   #68
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When people abuse their right to free speech it generally ends up in an arrest for disturbing the peace.

All rights can be abused. When an individual abuses their rights, they lose them. When a group of individuals abuse their rights in a similar fashion, they lose them as a group. Right or wrong, good or bad, like it or not, that is how society works.

Keep causing a nuisance with guns, and we will keep giving the other side ammunition to use against us. And eventually we will lose our rights because we as a group failed to regulate ourselves through peer pressure and failed to strongly send the message that "these morons flashing AKs on the street corners and fighting with the police do NOT represent the gun owning community as a whole."
I would like to know how someone "abuses" a "Right". If it is my right, and I choose to display it, its not an abuse.
These cops on power trips, or the ones that don't even know the law them selves, are the abusers.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:04 PM   #69
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I would like to know how someone "abuses" a "Right". If it is my right, and I choose to display it, its not an abuse.
These cops on power trips, or the ones that don't even know the law them selves, are the abusers.
it hinges on the attitude the person has. plenty of YouTube videos of open carriers tyring to bait cops into acting wrongly and video taping the confrontations.

how about the guy who goes to the grocery store with an AR or an AK strapped across his back? the guy is looking to make a statement, not excercise his rights.

i'm sorry, but there is a huge difference in excercising your rights and acting like a douchebag. how you approach doing something and a person's attitude when they are confronted are the key factors.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:11 PM   #70
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it hinges on the attitude the person has. plenty of YouTube videos of open carriers tyring to bait cops into acting wrongly and video taping the confrontations.

how about the guy who goes to the grocery store with an AR or an AK strapped across his back? the guy is looking to make a statement, not excercise his rights.

i'm sorry, but there is a huge difference in excercising your rights and acting like a douchebag. how you approach doing something and a person's attitude when they are confronted are the key factors.
I've seen it locally at a local Walt mart they made a good cop look bad
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