Grand Rapids MI PD Response to Open Carrier - Page 4
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:12 AM   #31
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Grand Rapids Chief of Police is retiring. Interesting twist that he suddenly announces his retirement at IRC, 54 years old.

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Old 01-09-2014, 02:15 AM   #32
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You'll note that the successful activists who made a difference, such as Martin Luther King, were respectful of law enforcement and were not looking for a confrontation. There may sadly one day be a time for violence and confrontation. Who knows what could happen with the path this crazy country has gone down. But this ain't it. We can still win peacefully providing these idiots don't keep inflaming public opinion against us.

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Old 01-09-2014, 02:31 AM   #33
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When people abuse their right to free speech it generally ends up in an arrest for disturbing the peace.

All rights can be abused. When an individual abuses their rights, they lose them. When a group of individuals abuse their rights in a similar fashion, they lose them as a group. Right or wrong, good or bad, like it or not, that is how society works.

Keep causing a nuisance with guns, and we will keep giving the other side ammunition to use against us. And eventually we will lose our rights because we as a group failed to regulate ourselves through peer pressure and failed to strongly send the message that "these morons flashing AKs on the street corners and fighting with the police do NOT represent the gun owning community as a whole."
Disturbing the peace is not free speech. Carrying your pistol in it's holster is likewise not disturbing the peace. Again, the confrontation comes from the police. If the man isn't breaking the law leave him the hell alone. Legally carrying is not causing a nuisance. If you think it is then you need to adjust your thinking. The real nuisance here is having to explain it to the police in this country. 2A: To keep and bear arms. That means I can carry what I want whether you like it or not. If that's to scary for you, stop being a cop. I don't like what liberals say but I will and I have defended their right to say it. I don't carry an ak47 but by God I'll defend your right to carry one.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:35 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
You'll note that the successful activists who made a difference, such as Martin Luther King, were respectful of law enforcement and were not looking for a confrontation. There may sadly one day be a time for violence and confrontation. Who knows what could happen with the path this crazy country has gone down. But this ain't it. We can still win peacefully providing these idiots don't keep inflaming public opinion against us.
Successful activist like the French underground fighting the Nazis. They weren't to respectful of hitler's law enforcement. When law enforcement starts trampling rights it's time to stop respecting them. You want respect, earn it, like everybody else. Enforcing illegal/unconstitutional laws won't earn you any respect.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:36 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
Disturbing the peace is not free speech. Carrying your pistol in it's holster is likewise not disturbing the peace. Again, the confrontation comes from the police. If the man isn't breaking the law leave him the hell alone. Legally carrying is not causing a nuisance. If you think it is then you need to adjust your thinking. The real nuisance here is having to explain it to the police in this country. 2A: To keep and bear arms. That means I can carry what I want whether you like it or not. If that's to scary for you, stop being a cop. I don't like what liberals say but I will and I have defended their right to say it. I don't carry an ak47 but by God I'll defend your right to carry one.
Yep. The police seem to be the ones looking for a confrontation. Plenty of abuse of power going on out there by scum cops who have no business with a badge.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
You'll note that the successful activists who made a difference, such as Martin Luther King, were respectful of law enforcement and were not looking for a confrontation. There may sadly one day be a time for violence and confrontation. Who knows what could happen with the path this crazy country has gone down. But this ain't it. We can still win peacefully providing these idiots don't keep inflaming public opinion against us.
Rosa Parks was ummm, arrested?

I was growing up in the south when Martin Luther King was really pushing... and he was far far from being respectful of law enforcement and was always looking for a confrontation. He was arrested a LOT.

I would recommend you read up on how these successful activists succeeding in advancing their causes. Here, I'll even give you one source
http://www.lib.lsu.edu/hum/mlk/srs216.html
Notice how many arrests and confrontations are involved.

The one incident that I distinctly remember was the muratic acid being poured into the swimming pool. It's at the end of this link, but please read the entire "peaceful" and "respectful" protest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine_Movement
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:43 AM   #37
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Too many "open carry advocates" have become "open carry radicals". Parading around in prominent places to draw attention to yourself and DARE the Police to confront you? Yes, stupid and counter productive.

Exercise your rights, don't flaunt them.
thank you! and WELL SAID. i tried to make this same exact point about these open carry radicals and got blasted by 1/2 the posters here or more......"it may be DUMB and ineffective, but it is their RIGHT...BLAH BLAH....."

again...thank you...i agree 100%...so many better ways to positively promote firearms rights than waste the time of the police and scare citizens to "raise awareness."

open carry for the sake of open carry is pointless and is a bad representation of second amendment supporters imo.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:44 AM   #38
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well said! agree 100%.

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Want to "raise awareness"? Get out the 22s. Take some noobs to

the range. Show them how to shoot.

People don't see what you want them to see, they see what

they WANT to see. Act like a "gun nut" and they will see

a gun nut.

Let them feel the self-empowerment of shooting, and they will

see that it is a fun sport, and want to get involved.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:46 AM   #39
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Disturbing the peace is not free speech.
One of the charges thrown at the Birmingham MI OC was disturbing the peace. The actual argument made was since the police arrested the person, who was sitting quietly minding his own business, he was disturbing the peace... oh, and a jury found him not guilty. Birmingham agreed to retrain their officers to avoid the civil rights lawsuit. There have not been any more OC arrests in Birmingham.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:52 AM   #40
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while i feel open carry might have in place in certain protests and if legal where you live, is fine for use in self defense (although i think concealed carry is by far the better option for self defense).....

i really think overall open carry laws should be used reasonably to protect firearms owners from being charged with some sort of BS crime when moving their guns from point A to point B.

i guess i just fail to see what open carry offers that a concealed carry will not accomplish as well or better. thus the reason i believe most open carry today is political grandstanding, or done for shock value....

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I feel that there is a time and place for open carry. I'm not going to open carry in any big cities. I live in a very small town, and will open carry once in a while. I do prefer concealed carry. I feel that its sort of like playing cards. Ya don't want to show what ya got.
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