Grand Rapids MI PD Response to Open Carrier - Page 3
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:41 AM   #21
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I feel that there is a time and place for open carry. I'm not going to open carry in any big cities. I live in a very small town, and will open carry once in a while. I do prefer concealed carry. I feel that its sort of like playing cards. Ya don't want to show what ya got.
i agree. There is a time and a place for OCing. In an anti-gun city, in front of a church\across the street from a church is neither the time nor the place. If it had been in AZ, on a street with 2 dozen other folks were OCing, it wouldn't have raised a single eyebrow.

Where I live in NY, almost everyone out in the country who carries does it OC while they are out in the sticks. It they are going into the city, the gun belt is swapped for an IWB holser, or a long coat is put on. It's not that all of the cops in my area are anti-gun D-bags, but there are a few who get off on giving sh!t to 2A supporters who exercise their rights. Why risk it?

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There is a difference between a man waving a gun and a citizen with a holstered gun
That there is. OTOH, would you OC in front of a school building, even across the street, after the sh!t storm caused by recent events?

The individual person can be very smart, but a large group of people are dumb panicky animals as a rule. I am not the kind of person who would tell anyone not to exercise their rights, but to do so in an unreasonable manner does far more harm than good. think about the religious zealots you know. How much success do they have putting butts in pews when they try to force their Dogma on other people? "We are just trying to save your soul! It's FYOG! Not a very successful tactic IMO.

Now lets say you are picking up yard debris after a storm, and 2 missionaries stop and offer to help. After helping they invite you and your family to a pot luck on Saturday. Which church would you rather go to?

OCing is the same basic thing. If you are not reflecting on the 2A supporters in a posititve way, you are doing more harm than good. The guy walking around in a perceived No Guns zone strapped in a manner which can be seen, (yes, he is exercising his 2A rights) is no different IMHO than a "Christian" trying to force their religion on someone else (yes, they are also exercising a right). They have the right Idea, but they are going about it the wrong way.

I don't think I will be coming back to this thread. If I have given cause to move this to Politcs, Religion, Etc, please feel free to delete my post Mods.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:53 AM   #22
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There are 171 churches in the county I live in. Kinda hard to OC anywhere and not be near a church. Its just plain old harassment by the police and right or wrong 99% of them will cover or back a fellow officer who was wrong. Shameful.

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Old 01-07-2014, 09:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by bamashooter68
There are 171 churches in the county I live in. Kinda hard to OC anywhere and not be near a church. Its just plain old harassment by the police and right or wrong 99% of them will cover or back a fellow officer who was wrong. Shameful.
Near minding your own business and on the property of by the front door and acting like a crazy are TOTALLY different.

For every 1 school shooting, there are 23 church shootings.

Here's how this works:

A guy wearing dark baggy clothes with a huge backpack and a ski mask walking in the parking lot of a ski resort: Ignore.

A guy wearing dark baggy clothes with a huge backpack and a ski mask walking in the parking lot of a bank: Detain and interview.

A guy open carrying minding his own business in the parking lot of the gun range: Ignore.

A guy open carrying and acting suspiciously in the parking lot or a church: Detain and interview.

Why? Because people don't usually rob ski slopes and people don't usually shoot other people at the gun range, not on purpose anyway.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by enfieldaddict View Post
There is a difference between a man waving a gun and a citizen with a holstered gun
There sure is...about one second!
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:05 PM   #25
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I'm not disagreeing with anyone or the LEO for that matter. But as indicated "...just walking away..." does NOT seem reason for further pursuit. I do agree that kind of action of Deffert is the bad apple that ruins progress for the 2A supporters. It is just careless and stupid if there is no point to his actions...and there doesn't seem to be.

About the Opinions - my point is it seems to only take a LEO's statement "...acting oddly..." to make his case. Now every thing the officer does is right? This doesn't seem fair or right just because it is an opinion. I also feel this may be a case where the cop just "made up a story" to support his actions - appropriate or not.

I agree with robocop10mm and Alsaqr that we should encourage our "friends" to be more sensible with our actions. Nothing worse than doing dumb-azz things while trying to prove to society that you are smart and professional. I know - the next question is "what dumb-azz things did he do?". Difficult to determine with the info available.

We had an open carry day in New Castle, Va in Nov 2013. I did not see one single police, sheriff or state police for the hours I was there. The police station was on the next street but not one felt the need to attend. There was never an incident at the open carry day event.

In support of the LEO to be suspicious and cautious is ok...perhaps he overstepped his boundaries...I don't know - I wasn't there. Perhaps the video will change my mind.

I'm always on the fence about issues like this - usually because I wasn't here and don't have all the details to make an intelligent decision. But I always learn new approaches and valuable information from other members. That's my take.

Kinda reminds me of my time in Dallas - 1986-1990 before the open-container law was passed. You could pull up beside a cop and take a swig from your bottle of Jack Daniel's and it was legal. Is it smart - I don't think so.

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Old 01-08-2014, 12:31 AM   #26
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Would those "people" be your best friend's, neighbor's, cousin's best friend from high school?



Like I said, this is NOT an exercise of rights. This is a flaunt of rights. So the tactics of the vocal minority are now something to be emulated? Everytime you push the line, the line pushes back. THIS is the wrong tactic at the wrong time!
Personally known to me. They were approached by the person that was arrested, who directed them to the attorney that filed the lawsuit.

In MI, there has been a LOT of progress made by those willing to "push the line". Many parts of the state now recognize the right and understand that most people with a firearm are actually good law abiding people.

I didn't post this to reignite the OC/CC discussion, which never ends well on this forum. This was pure and simple an attempt at intimidation by a police force which has a history of this tactic.

Prosecutor has so far refused to publicly release the video. One has to wonder why??? I don't know about legal tactics, but it seems to me that the defense can enter it into evidence, which then means it's public?
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:54 PM   #27
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partdeux: Keep up the good work!

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Old 01-09-2014, 12:31 AM   #28
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Do we detain and harass people for "flaunting" their right to free speech?

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Old 01-09-2014, 01:45 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by rjd3282
Do we detain and harass people for "flaunting" their right to free speech?
When people abuse their right to free speech it generally ends up in an arrest for disturbing the peace.

All rights can be abused. When an individual abuses their rights, they lose them. When a group of individuals abuse their rights in a similar fashion, they lose them as a group. Right or wrong, good or bad, like it or not, that is how society works.

Keep causing a nuisance with guns, and we will keep giving the other side ammunition to use against us. And eventually we will lose our rights because we as a group failed to regulate ourselves through peer pressure and failed to strongly send the message that "these morons flashing AKs on the street corners and fighting with the police do NOT represent the gun owning community as a whole."
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:10 AM   #30
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Keep causing a nuisance with guns, and we will keep giving the other side ammunition to use against us. And eventually we will lose our rights because we as a group failed to regulate ourselves through peer pressure and failed to strongly send the message that "these morons flashing AKs on the street corners and fighting with the police do NOT represent the gun owning community as a whole."
Yeah, what he said.

Damn those Negroes not sitting in the right seats on the bus, they're going to make so none of us can ride the bus.

Damn those gay people holding hands and kissing in public

And what's up with those pesky bill of rights, they are no longer needed in modern society.

Sorry bud, but Michigan Open Carry has done a Yomen's work in advancing ALL firearm rights in MI, including those constitution violating OCers. Grand Rapids has taken on the task to intimidate normal and LEGAL activities into submission. This time they really stepped up the intimidation to a new level.
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