Grand Rapids MI PD Response to Open Carrier - Page 10
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:04 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
the fact of the matter is there are cops who abuse their authority and haven't a real clue many times to the legalities of the law pertaining to a citizen's rights concering guns and lawful carry.

but there are still ignorant douchebags who will try and make a political statement about their rights and try an bait cops into doing or saying something wrong.

so ignorant douchebags shouldstart acting like they have some sense and using their brains if they want to make a statement. being stupid is still being stupid and just because a person is within their legal rights, doesn't mean they aren't acting stupid.
and abusive cops need to learn the law and start acting with some professionalism and dignity that their badge and position deserve. if not they should really consider a career change.
Where they lose me is: Wanna be a tard? Fine, leave your gun locked

up at home. WHY make all gun owners look like tards, by acting like a

tard, while wearing a gun? WHAT did we do, to get this kind of attention?
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:18 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
Where they lose me is: Wanna be a tard? Fine, leave your gun locked

up at home. WHY make all gun owners look like tards, by acting like a

tard, while wearing a gun? WHAT did we do, to get this kind of attention?
nice
/sarc
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:16 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
the fact of the matter is there are cops who abuse their authority and haven't a real clue many times to the legalities of the law pertaining to a citizen's rights concering guns and lawful carry.

but there are still ignorant douchebags who will try and make a political statement about their rights and try an bait cops into doing or saying something wrong.

so ignorant douchebags shouldstart acting like they have some sense and using their brains if they want to make a statement. being stupid is still being stupid and just because a person is within their legal rights, doesn't mean they aren't acting stupid.
and abusive cops need to learn the law and start acting with some professionalism and dignity that their badge and position deserve. if not they should really consider a career change.
Axxe man I thoroughly enjoy 99.9% of your posts, but since when does making a political statement make someone a douchebag? Especially when the real douchebags are trying so desperately to take away our rights. Were the participants of the Boston Tea Party douchebags? Stifling our first amendment right to protest isn't going to help us in anyway. Instead of ridiculing the people who protest we should jumping down the necks of police officers who violate our rights.

Once again this individual was just walking down the street, not protesting or being a douchebag. Until we nut up and say enough is enough, things will continue to get worse.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:22 AM   #94
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Axxe man I thoroughly enjoy 99.9% of your posts, but since when does making a political statement make someone a douchebag? Especially when the real douchebags are trying so desperately to take away our rights. Were the participants of the Boston Tea Party douchebags? Stifling our first amendment right to protest isn't going to help us in anyway. Instead of ridiculing the people who protest we should jumping down the necks of police officers who violate our rights.

Once again this individual was just walking down the street, not protesting or being a douchebag. Until we nut up and say enough is enough, things will continue to get worse.
hold on! i said a douchebag making a political statement. not that making a political statement made a person a douchebag. huge difference.

also my statements in that post were not directed at what was going on in the video, but just comments and opinions in general.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:57 AM   #95
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As someone pointed out earlier, stupid is not against the law. If it was D.C. would be empty. One man's douchebag is another man's protester.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:00 AM   #96
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As someone pointed out earlier, stupid is not against the law. If it was D.C. would be empty. One man's douchebag is another man's protester.
well, i'll just disengage myself from this thread so as not to offend anyone.

i wouldn't want anyone to think i align myself with douchebags for being douchebags.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:29 AM   #97
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Well, the lawsuit is proceeding... and it's getting interesting

This appeared in the court filings.... from a sgt on the department
At this point, I instructed Officer Moe to meet me across the street and I would explain it to him. I informed him that open carry was not illegal, which he acknowledged. I then further attempted to explain that absent something more than walking down the street with an exposed handgun in a holster, there was not legal means of detaining a subject.

Officer Moe emphatically expressed that he would handle the call the same way, that he was going home at the end of the night. I again attempted to explain that simple open carry such as this is not illegal and we cannot detain someone for it. I attempted to explain that I am trying to keep him, myself, and the department from getting into trouble for those types of actions. Officer Moe was initially “upset” and informed me that he again would continue to approach these types of calls in a similar manner. He further stated if I needed to write him up, then do so.
[...]
I believe Officer Moe would benefit from some additional training in handling “open carry” issues. He informed me that this incident had been recorded on the ICV, however, I did not review the incident at the time of this memo."

source
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:45 AM   #98
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Officer Moe has been trained.....to make LAC into criminals.
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:28 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
Well, the lawsuit is proceeding... and it's getting interesting

This appeared in the court filings.... from a sgt on the department
At this point, I instructed Officer Moe to meet me across the street and I would explain it to him. I informed him that open carry was not illegal, which he acknowledged. I then further attempted to explain that absent something more than walking down the street with an exposed handgun in a holster, there was not legal means of detaining a subject.

Officer Moe emphatically expressed that he would handle the call the same way, that he was going home at the end of the night. I again attempted to explain that simple open carry such as this is not illegal and we cannot detain someone for it. I attempted to explain that I am trying to keep him, myself, and the department from getting into trouble for those types of actions. Officer Moe was initially “upset” and informed me that he again would continue to approach these types of calls in a similar manner. He further stated if I needed to write him up, then do so.
[...]
I believe Officer Moe would benefit from some additional training in handling “open carry” issues. He informed me that this incident had been recorded on the ICV, however, I did not review the incident at the time of this memo."

source
One of the things I find disturbing about the memo from the sgt is this:

"Mr. Deffert clearly was very well versed in his “right” to open carry and also appeared to be doing this in part to see what type of reaction he could get."

Bold underline is mine, but the quote marks are in the sgts report. The quote marks suggest that the sgt considers RTKBA as something that may not really be a "right".

The sgt is correct to admonish Officer Moe about proper cause for detaining an open carry citizen and to forward his concerns about the need for further training to his superior. But his attitude towards the Right (not in quotes) to keep and bear arms is questionable.

The sgt also suggests that Mr. Deffert appeared to be doing this to get a reaction. Would Mr. Deffert have been on that street in the normal course of his life? Or did he go there specifically to provoke a reaction?

In my opinion, if a citizen who is open carrying and going about his normal business gets detained for open carry, that citizen is in a much better position to make an effective point in the media and with any jury than a citizen who is attempting to provoke a confrontation. The former is genuinely exercising 2A, the latter is using 2A for a purpose other than its original intent.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:13 PM   #100
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This appears in the complete document
**We continued to talk and he became more pleasant to speak with as he calmed down.**I again attempted
to explain my intentions of keeping any further problems from occurring. I did agree with him without question
that this type of activity is less than smart to do
, but like it or not, we have to deal with it
Mr. Deffert was going about his daily business.

Have another incident that popped up in Detroit Suburb. It appears he was looking for a reaction and got one... However, again he was doing nothing illegal. Like you, I don't like when people are looking for attention and then find it. I carry everywhere I can and go about my daily business.
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