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Old 07-05-2007, 04:23 PM   #11
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Spartan you are wrong. At least as far as Tx. goes. And are you so naieve as to think yahoos don't carry guns simply because they don't have a permit? I guess carjackings are a thing of the past because surely no criminal would carry a gun because he got turned down for his permit. The Second Amendment gives you the right to protect your self, property and family with a gun. Not only those who happen to have a permit.

Gun laws only make it easier on the criminals.

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Old 07-06-2007, 04:41 AM   #12
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It is not legal in New Jersey. In fact, NJ keeps going round and round in federal court over FOPA. Delaware ain't too friendly either. Ask me how I know.

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Old 07-06-2007, 05:21 AM   #13
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i never said that yahoos or criminals dont carry guns, where the hell did you get that from? WOW! probably not from the part where I said that the fact that obtaining a carry permit will keep the people who cannot get them from getting them. jesus! naive!? lol! yea, im naive, im a friggin ballerina. let me know after you've shot someone who drew down on you who wasnt supposed to be carrying, then we'll have a discussion about naive.

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Old 07-06-2007, 05:24 AM   #14
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buy the way, only the guys who cant get a permit think that a permit is a bad idea, trust me, to comply with one simple rule isnt that big of a deal, especially when considering reciprocity. take for instance how much more difficult it is for residents of VT who dont get a carry permit, when they try to get non resident permits. So go ahead and carry without a permit in TX, i can carry in every state but about five, which I would never travel to anyways. I can even carry in canada, naive...lol.

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Old 07-06-2007, 05:36 AM   #15
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maybe i should add that those are permits that give me the right to carry, not the idea that just because i have a gun i should be allowed to carry it, criminal minds all think alike, stop breaking the law, be legal, get the damn permit, christ. there is always someone who has to find a reason to complain about something, you know the system isnt perfect, and i will be the first to admit the fact that having to wait a month or three for a stupid piece of paper isnt something that i look or looked forward to, but that is the process. the process is in place to protect us, and it may not be a perfect system, but it has its benefits. personally, the fact that law enforcement would take the extra measure to make sure that the peolple that they authorize to carry are legally able to carry, and the fact that they would take the time to screen a criminal record goes a long way to show the commitment of law enforcement to protecting the community. of course bad men will always get their hands on weapons, always, there is no doubt of that. permit or no permit. the police expect that law biding citizens adhere to protocol and apply for a permit. do you have any idea of the headache and the hassle that you will find yourself in if you are ever stopped and you are carrying and you dont have a permit. even if you have a permit and do not have it on your person, in most states, you will go to jail. showing the police your permit removes you from the scope of suspicion, you automatically receive treatment which is much different then that you would receive otherwise. in fact, i have been stopped while carrying, and have actually had the officer refrain from citing me for anything after discovering that I was carrying and that i had my permit. there is a principle of honesty and integrity which comes with the responsibility of carrying. that idea of standing against the government and the authority and fighting for the idea of what the constitution was originally intended is a little ridiculous when the times we live in today are much different then those when those rights were intially prescribed. we have to adapt and comply. rules are in place for a reason, if you dont like them, and want to do things your way, then go to Iraq, and see lawlessness for yourself. anarchy is not such a great thing, believe me, ive seen it.

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Old 07-06-2007, 10:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
buy the way, only the guys who cant get a permit think that a permit is a bad idea, trust me, to comply with one simple rule isnt that big of a deal, especially when considering reciprocity. take for instance how much more difficult it is for residents of VT who dont get a carry permit, when they try to get non resident permits. So go ahead and carry without a permit in TX, i can carry in every state but about five, which I would never travel to anyways. I can even carry in canada, naive...lol.
Yeah, those people who live on fixed or low incomes, to whom the $100 permit fee coupled with the $100 - $250 for the required training class is a MAJOR expense don't really need to be carrying. So what if they're living in high crime neighborhoods or have to dread going outside because their age makes them an easy mark? Getting a permit is not that big a deal if you've got a well-paying job with plenty of disposable, discretionary income and live in a good neighborhood or have political connections. But for some people, people who really would benefit from being able to carry the means of protecting themselves, it is a big, insurmountable deal.
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Old 07-06-2007, 11:36 AM   #17
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wow, so in your world, you would rather have untrained people who dont know how to use a gun or how to shoot accurately carrying, god forbid you have children or happen to go anywhere other then your living room, yea, lets do what you guys want and just let everybody carry, they would be great if everybody would actually want to carry, but they dont, so that leaves this large majority of people who have no money and either dont want to go through the training or cannot afford it, great, lets just let them have a gun and carry it around so that when they decide that its time to use the damned thing a stray round from their badly aimed shot might hit you in the head, jesus christ, you guys are great. this majority you speak of is the very same majority, who thinks that its is smart to bring more guns into a high crime area, placing them into the hands of people who dont know how to use them or store them or even shoot them, so now we have this wonderfully huge statistic that shows that most people are actually killed with their own gun. lets give everybody a gun, in a country were only about 60 percent of americans have ever actually fired a gun. this isnt israel, i dont even know why this is an argument, permits are permits. if its what you want to do, then you have to make the sacrifice, i dont make crap for a living, and had to sacrifice some of the things i wanted, and budget and save in order to get the permits i needed. i mean seriously, you must be joking about this.

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Old 07-06-2007, 05:28 PM   #18
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I haven't found that training makes a whole lot of difference when it comes to gun safety. In fact, most of the gun accidents I have witnessed were caused by people with more training than the average permit holder. I have seen cops that have shot themselves, soldiers that have shot their buddies, and in one case, an NRA instructor that shot through the exterior wall of his house while cleaning his gun.

Plus, lots of "shall issue" states have no training requirement. In many jurisdictions, "a right delayed is a right denied".

Personally, I think we need to have training for a lot of rights - take voting, for instance. There are a lot of people out there who really don't know how to vote. We should offer training for those people and issue permits to vote when they have completed the training. If we keep good records, we can pull the permits of those who keep electing bad pols.

Training and permits are definitely needed for free exercise of religion. That's the only way I can think of to clamp down on radical Mohammedism.

And my favorite - freedom of speech. Definitely need to require some training there. Especially in the news media. Those S.O.B.s lie to us day in and day out. They need to be trained and issued permits, and when they show that they are incapable of being honest, the government can pull their permits.

Let's all write our congressmen and tell them to do it for the children!

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Old 07-06-2007, 11:16 PM   #19
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Well I do make bunches of money for a living. I had the permit and will state that it is bull****. It is nothing more than another tax and a back door way to make a list of current gun owners. . If it is legal for someone to own a gun then it is legal. Whether I own or carry a gun is no ones business but mine. No person on earth has a right to know what I have inside my pocket, vest, truck or house. And my children started shooting at 5 years old as will my Grandkids.

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Old 07-07-2007, 02:20 AM   #20
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Not every state requires fingerprints. Kentucky doesn't. As has been stated, prints are for state only.

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