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Old 05-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #31
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You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet. There is some truth to some of the info, but there are lots of false info too. A person can get a competition license taking a weekend course. You can keep the license as long as you show you shoot regularly. I think it is 18 times a year. That can be any caliber, and does not have to be the gun you own. You just mark in a booklet for example-shot ten rounds of .22. There that is one day. You do have to belong to a range/shooting club, but were else are you going to shoot? I pay under 20 dollars for two years. With a comp license you can own as many handguns as you want. I own a hunters license, but I can still get a comp license with minimal effort. I Have to have hunting insurance for 1000000 euros. That costs less then 100 euros for three years. This also covers my guns. I think this is smart.

All guns are registered and you keep a weapons card with you showing which ones you own. There is paperwork and small regitration fee, but it is not that bad. I have to "store" guns in a weapons safe. I have never met anyone who had their guns inspected by police at their house. I hear they can come, but if I am not home, they have to leave. Why? The gun owner has the key. My wife does not even have to show them the safe.

There are goof ball anti-gunners like in the states. Still, not even close to what the US is dealing with. There are a lot of politicians who hunt. Germany also has a large pro gun and hunting political organization like the NRA. Each state Also has organizations. Germany deals with millions of dollars a year in game damage. Hunting is necessary for natural preserves, farmland and economy.

No knee jerk reactions after school shootings. The government realizes that further gun control was not the answer. A couple of nutters again, but too small to make a voice. Also, most gun crime comes from illegal guns. Germany realizes it is the borders that need to be addressed. The guns are coming from the former Soviet Bloc countries.

Gun magazine capacity. My P226 has 15 round mags, but I can order higher capacity mags from my LGS. I could order the 22 round Glock mags from Austria through my LGS if I owned a Glock. My AR has twenty round PMAGS. I could get 30 rounds from other companies. The Rod and Gun club has 30 round mags.

Assault Rifles- I own a German AR. I know at least 20 German and American hunters with assault rifles. There are competitions and organizations that support the assault rifle community. They are good for hunting too. There are a few antis in government, but nothing like the states. Plus, German gun makers have a huge enfluence.

Do not move to Germany? Well, Germany is beautiful with a rich history dating back to prehistoric times. In my area we had celts, Romans, barbarians and medieval ruins. Awesome scenery and a large hiking community. We have a traditional hunting community. People are wonderful and have supported the US military community since the end of the war. We have wine and beer festivals. Do not move to Germany? You can not base a country just on gun laws.

Self defense. German law says that force has to be equal. So, a knife for a knife. Fist for a fist. Gun for a gun. I can use a gun on an intruder if the intruder had a gun. We learn when we can shoot somebody in hunting class. I can shoot someone trying to steal my rifle while hunting. (Think terrorism) I first give a warning, then a warning shot, then I can drop them. I also know if someone breaks in the house and tries to stab a family member, I am going to drop them. The German courts will see I was preserving life. If we cannot defend ourselves, then why do I have hollow points in my handguns? Why do I have NATO rounds for my .308 and AR. They are made to kill humans. Why is it that the
LGS sells out 00buck all the time? The shells are not for hunting or skeet.

Carrying. I do carry concealed and open when I hunt. It is expected. In fact, it would be stupid not to. I have to carry to protect the rifle, give a final shot (if needed) and protection from wildlife. I must have the handgun on me at all times until I get home. I will get in trouble if I do not. I do have to unload the gun after leaving the revier though. I do not think about my safety in public though, because crime is so freaking low over here. If Germany had a high crime rate, I wonder if concealed carry laws would change? Well, I guess necessity is important to consider?

I am an American living in Germany. I do not regret living over here. I have freedom of speech, I hunt and own high capacity guns and military style rifle, I have excellent judicial rights, I go where I please, I travel, I drink beer, I have friends and a family and I am very happy. Still, I love the USA and will fight to the death for my country.

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Old 05-13-2013, 11:43 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Im about Half German but that mattered not when I was in the Werner Family Deutches homeland; they like their neighbors as pure as their beer.

I dont think living in Germany without speaking German unless your a GI would be much fun. Firstly, you would feel so darned much like an outsider; Secondly, unless things have changed, The Rads really didnt like Americans all that much to begin with, not speaking their language only means you wont know when they are cursing you, "Fick Du Bizy Blut Swantzekoft" (I know Jeager, my spelling sucks)!. Thirdly, almost all of them speak English but few will let you know unless you try German first, learn to speak it even a little and you will find they are more receptive.

Germany isnt America, they are two very different Countries with very different Mindsets. They consider us rogues and cowboys and we have a tough time not seeing them as the authors of 2 World Wars. In the 80's, they still had signs on many of the local Gasthouses like "Nix Americaners" and "Nix Schwartz Americaners". Most didnt want their daughters to date us and Marriage could cost a Rad Woman her German Family ties.

I never got to see the Two Germanys United, I cant imagine the combination of Stoic Northerners, Bavarian Southerners and an entire population of Communists.

Question, Anyone out there still have their SMLM Card? Sadly I tossed all that stuff when I PCS'ed...
I honesty did not experience would you did. The Germans and Americans in K -town area are so intermingled now, we have created a new culture. There are a lot of half German half Americans now. My wife is half German, half African American. She was never felt like an outsider from either side. Sorry you had some bad experiences in the area you were in. Still, when I visited my biological father when he was stationed in Mississippi, People called me Yankee. I did not feel welcome there either. I guess every country has their bigots and biases. How much is basic human nature?
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:29 PM   #33
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Well, we have to clarify some things here:

- "A person can get a competition license taking a weekend course."
OK, right, but you MUST shot for at least a year (18 times) and provide information that you attend competition shooting for the following three years (18 timed p/anno) or your license is forfeit.
The government can check this shooting record at any time later (at their will), if you do not have your 18 shooting sessions/year, byebye guns!

"No knee jerk reactions after school shootings."
Well, after both incidents (Erfurt & Winnenden) gun laws were the first thing which were thightened, speaks for itself!

"With a comp license you can own as many handguns as you want."
DEAD WRONG!
This comp license allows you to own certain types of long guns, NOT handguns and NO semi auto rifles!
Even as a target shooter you mus show a genuine NEED for every single handgun/semi rifle, and the government my or may not give you a permit.

Mag cap restriction:
Applies to semi-auto rifles. Hunting is 2 round capacity, target shooting 10 rounds. Larger mags are available, but you are forbidden to use them (even on the range).

Semi auto rifles:
If you want to sell a such a rifle in germany, the BKA (counterpart to FBI)
has to give its consent (otherwise this type of rifle cannot be sold or cannot be used for target shooting).

"I have NATO rounds for my .308 and AR."
I assume they are military hard core type (steel core). If this is the case
please wake up felon, privat ownership of such ammunition is forbidden!

"Carrying. I do carry concealed and open when I hunt."
But only on your hunting area. Carrying on the way from/to the hunting location is forbidden.

"We learn when we can shoot somebody in hunting class."
OK,you are a member of a "privileged" class. Hunters are treated more lax than target shooters in germany, leave alone ordinary people!

"Germany also has a large pro gun and hunting political organization like the NRA."
Please, please show this organisation to me!
The DSB is a target shooting association, the DJV is a hunting association. BIG gun rights organisation (as a peoples rights organisation)? let me think.......dunno!

Best regards,
wakeupeverybody

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:43 PM   #34
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Dude you are so full of it. I live this every day. I have a feeling I would just go around in circles with you Comp. license is for shooting competition pistols and semi-auto rifles obviously. The NATO rounds are even sold at the military Rod and Gun Clubs. I shoot them all the time. I am not privilaged at all. The HK, Sig, Hera Arms, Oberland Arms, Schmeisser all come with 20 round mags. I hunt with a 2 round mag, but there is no 10 round rule even at the range. Go spew your BS somewher else. The only one that needs to wake up is you. I deal with weapons registration on both the military and government side all the time. I have for a very long time. Well, I think this conversation is over, I will not continue with the a troll nutcase anymore.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:05 PM   #35
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Dear Jagermeister!

I just waned to correct some misconceptions you brought in here.

If you are a member of the US Army or any other foreign military, you are exempted from the german laws, so maybe many of them do not apply.

But i.e. the mag cap restriction, you will find the text here:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/awaffv/BJNR212300003.html#BJNR212300003BJNG000300000

Quote:
§ 6 Vom Schießsport ausgeschlossene Schusswaffen
......
3.
halbautomatische Langwaffen mit einem Magazin, das eine Kapazität von mehr als zehn Patronen hat.
Let me translate:
"§6 guns forbidden at competitive shooting
....
3. Semi- automatic rifles whith a magazine which can take more tan 10 rounds"

Competition shooting:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/waffg_2002/__14.html
Quote:
§ 14 Erwerb und Besitz von Schusswaffen und Munition durch Sportschützen
(1) Die Erlaubnis zum Erwerb und Besitz von Schusswaffen und Munition zum Zweck des sportlichen Schießens wird abweichend von § 4 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 nur erteilt, wenn der Antragsteller das 21. Lebensjahr vollendet hat. Satz 1 gilt nicht für den Erwerb und Besitz von Schusswaffen bis zu einem Kaliber von 5,6 mm lfB (.22 l.r.) für Munition mit Randfeuerzündung, wenn die Mündungsenergie der Geschosse höchstens 200 Joule (J) beträgt, und Einzellader-Langwaffen mit glatten Läufen mit Kaliber 12 oder kleiner, sofern das sportliche Schießen mit solchen Waffen durch die genehmigte Sportordnung eines Schießsportverbandes zugelassen ist.
(2) Ein Bedürfnis für den Erwerb und Besitz von Schusswaffen und der dafür bestimmten Munition wird bei Mitgliedern eines Schießsportvereins anerkannt, der einem nach § 15 Abs. 1 anerkannten Schießsportverband angehört. Durch eine Bescheinigung des Schießsportverbandes oder eines ihm angegliederten Teilverbandes ist glaubhaft zu machen, dass

1.
das Mitglied seit mindestens zwölf Monaten den Schießsport in einem Verein regelmäßig als Sportschütze betreibt und
2.
die zu erwerbende Waffe für eine Sportdisziplin nach der Sportordnung des Schießsportverbandes zugelassen und erforderlich ist.
Short translation:
$14 Gun owning by target shooters:
... younger than 21, you are limited to rimfire guns if muzzle energy is 200 joules or below or shotguns....
Quote:
und der Antragsteller regelmäßig an Schießsportwettkämpfen teilgenommen hat.
(4) Sportschützen, die dem Schießsport in einem Schießsportverband nach § 15 Abs. 1 als gemeldetes Mitglied nachgehen, wird abweichend von § 10 Abs. 1 Satz 3 unter Beachtung des Absatzes 2 Satz 2 Nr. 1 und Satz 3 eine unbefristete Erlaubnis erteilt, die zum Erwerb von Einzellader-Langwaffen mit glatten und gezogenen Läufen, von Repetier-Langwaffen mit gezogenen Läufen sowie von einläufigen Einzellader-Kurzwaffen für Patronenmunition und von mehrschüssigen Kurz- und Langwaffen mit Zündhütchenzündung (Perkussionswaffen) berechtigt. Die Eintragung von Waffen, die auf Grund dieser unbefristeten Erlaubnis erworben wurden, in die Waffenbesitzkarte ist durch den Erwerber binnen zwei Wochen zu beantragen.
Short translation:
If you are a member of a shooting organisation (minimum member count, has to be acknowledged by the government), and over 21, you are allowed to own bolt action rifles also single shot pistols, black powder revolving pistols, multiple-barreled percussion black powder guns without the need to get a permit every time.
BUT this gun has to fit the rules of any government accnowledged shooting organisation.

For every other type of gun (semi-automatic handgun, revolving handgun, semi-auto rifle, etc...) you need a single issue permit.

Sorry if you feel offended by my posts, but i just tried to give facts.

Greetings,
wakeupeverybody
(german gun owner)
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:08 PM   #36
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Some of my legally obtained high capacity weaponry approved by the German government.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:17 PM   #37
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Nope, I have to follow all German laws. I obtained my weapons according to German law and follow all guide lines as a hunter. There are no exceptions like the past. I am treated just like any German hunter.

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Old 05-13-2013, 05:40 PM   #38
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From what I can see the German firearms laws are similar to UK laws. And as I have said compared to laws in America they are strict. But its not as difficult to get firearms as some in America think. What's the procedure for changing handguns in Germany here you can change one handgun of the same calibre for another in the gun shop without going trough the police the shop does the paper work.

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Old 05-13-2013, 06:09 PM   #39
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Each time you buy a handgun, you have to turn in weapons card and register the gun. It may take a few months because the government takes the paperwork and sends you a registration fee. They process paperwork and add gun to your weapons card after you pay bill through the bank. They are back logged, which is causing the delays. You can pick up gun once you received you weapons card back with the new entry. For long arms, you can take gun home same day, but still do paperwork within two weeks. You can sell and trade a gun at the store, but the shop has to get gun signed over to them. They take care of most the work. I never went through process, but you have to remove gun from weapons card. Maybe turn in card for removal? You have to have a hunting or competition license to purchase a weapon.

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:03 PM   #40
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Dear Jagermeister,

you are talking about the "Jagdschein" when you say "weapons card"?

Wakeupeverybody

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