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Old 08-06-2013, 03:48 PM   #21
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Since I could not get the link to work, here is a copy of the Law.

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Old 08-06-2013, 07:21 PM   #22
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Since I could not get the link to work, here is a copy of the Law.
One thing so many do not consider in SYG vs self defense cases. SYG removes the duty to retreat, providing there was a reasonable avenue of retreat available. SYG ends when there is no reasonable avenue of retreat. At that point it becomes a straight self defense situation. This is what Zimmerman faced. He was attacked from ambush. For there to be a reasonable avenue of retreat he would first have to know that an ambush was imminent. SYG doesn't apply, yet he will be the whipping boy against SYG because of all the publicity.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:47 PM   #23
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Thanks for that, TDS and Locutus. Regardless of opinion by some people, I believe that creating a hazardous situation wherein someone dies is considered manslaughter, isn't it? And um... isn't that one of the charges Zim was acquitted of? Which means that he wasn't found guilty, and NOT that it means it's an acceptable practice.

Yeah, it's generally accepted either with law or precedent nearly everywhere that the aggressor can't claim self defense.

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Old 08-06-2013, 07:59 PM   #24
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I think the dems are right.

GZ's head COULD HAVE retreated through the curb.

Oh, waitaminnit, maybe not...

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Old 08-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #25
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Thanks for that, TDS and Locutus. Regardless of opinion by some people, I believe that creating a hazardous situation wherein someone dies is considered manslaughter, isn't it? And um... isn't that one of the charges Zim was acquitted of? Which means that he wasn't found guilty, and NOT that it means it's an acceptable practice.

Yeah, it's generally accepted either with law or precedent nearly everywhere that the aggressor can't claim self defense.
I agree. if someone creates the situation and causes the death of someone, the minimum as I understand it would be Manslaughter. However, this is not the case with Zimmerman. At the most, he should have been found guilty of stupidity and not following the instructions of the 911 Operator. This is my OPINION only. The SYG Law does not give the person the right to pursue the bad guy, only to defend himself against the bad guy if he/she is in a place where he has a right to be and is under some form of physical threat. Being verbally abused is not is not covered under SYG, just saying.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #26
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Amazes me how many stupid people there are out there that think the Zimmerman case had something to do with SYG. Many will say "it was in the jury instructions" but wont admit that in this specific case SYG was not claimed because it was irrelevant.

It was pure self defense because even in States where SYG does not exist the duty to retreat is limited. You have to have an "opportunity to safely retreat without putting yourself or others at greater risk". Clearly in Zimmerman's version of events no opportunity existed to retreat so even in a non SYG state he would still have been acquitted.

Cant tell you how many times I posted this on the CNN comments section but those idiots don't get it.

I live in Florida and will be writing to all State and Federal Representatives about this again. Can't wait to read Corrine Brown's response. I am sure it will be a work of true genius.

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Old 08-06-2013, 11:12 PM   #27
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I dunno Fl law well enough to know if that is an issue.

Here in WY, the aggressor cannot claim self defense. To me, that is a very good law.

In all of the evidence that I've seen, Martin was the aggressor. Simply following someone is never justification for physical attack. Even verbal abuse does not usually rise to the level of justifying physical assault.

FL law must be quite different.
Comments from the jurors, after the trial, indicate that they thought Z was not innocent, but by the law, the state had not proved the charges, therefore they had no option but to acquit. That is entirely correct and I think that the jury did the right thing.

The question in a lot of people's minds is this. Z was not a cop, he had no business stalking Martin. He had no business getting out of his car to follow the young man on foot. He created a deadly situation out of nothing.

Since playing "what if" is generally accepted as fair play on this forum I will say this: If, during the struggle, Martin had taken the gun from Zimmerman, and killed Z with it, Martin could have had a better claim of self defense than Zimmerman did.......Martin would have been alive to talk about how this man stalked him first in his car, then on foot, confronted him with a gun, he fought for his life, took the gun from Zimmerman and it went off killing Z.

Zimmerman is a free man. He was judged by a jury of his peers and found not guilty and that is the end of that as far as I am concerned. However, that is not the end of the debate over the way the law in Florida is written and enforced.

The Florida government is firmly in the hands of the Republicans at this time, so no changes in the law is on the horizon.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:25 PM   #28
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WTF Chainfire???

This is the second thing of yours that I have agreed with!

Either it is going to snow or you are switching sides!!


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Comments from the jurors, after the trial, indicate that they thought Z was not innocent, but by the law, the state had not proved the charges, therefore they had no option but to acquit. That is entirely correct and I think that the jury did the right thing.

The question in a lot of people's minds is this. Z was not a cop, he had no business stalking Martin. He had no business getting out of his car to follow the young man on foot. He created a deadly situation out of nothing.

Since playing "what if" is generally accepted as fair play on this forum I will say this: If, during the struggle, Martin had taken the gun from Zimmerman, and killed Z with it, Martin could have had a better claim of self defense than Zimmerman did.......Martin would have been alive to talk about how this man stalked him first in his car, then on foot, confronted him with a gun, he fought for his life, took the gun from Zimmerman and it went off killing Z.

Zimmerman is a free man. He was judged by a jury of his peers and found not guilty and that is the end of that as far as I am concerned. However, that is not the end of the debate over the way the law in Florida is written and enforced.

The Florida government is firmly in the hands of the Republicans at this time, so no changes in the law is on the horizon.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:29 PM   #29
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Go right ahead and use it. Just be glad I cleaned it up to what I ended up posting.

We had committee meetings, public forums, and Lord knows what else on SYG before the trial. It passed muster, then, and I believe it will pass muster again. I would hate to go back to the time we were legally obligated to retreat our butts right out of our own home if someone broke in.
Doc, I was born in North Florida and, except for the time I was in the service, I have always lived here. In my 61 years, I can not recall a single incident where a homeowner was prosecuted for killing a criminal in their home.

Incidents like this, in my end of the state, has always been handled by neither the Sheriff or States Attorney pressing any charges against the homeowner. A coroner would come to the house, say yep, he's dead, haul the shootee to the morgue and help clean up the mess.

I have never felt that I did not have the right to defend my family or home, before or after the castle doctrine became law. Never would I have felt the need to run out my back door and leave my home to an intruder. Neither do I think that any of my neighbors have felt they didn't have the same rights.

Things may be different in Miami of Jacksonville, or Orlando, but common sense has ruled, to good measure, in this part of Florida.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:59 PM   #30
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Doc, I was born in North Florida and, except for the time I was in the service, I have always lived here. In my 61 years, I can not recall a single incident where a homeowner was prosecuted for killing a criminal in their home.

Incidents like this, in my end of the state, has always been handled by neither the Sheriff or States Attorney pressing any charges against the homeowner. A coroner would come to the house, say yep, he's dead, haul the shootee to the morgue and help clean up the mess.

I have never felt that I did not have the right to defend my family or home, before or after the castle doctrine became law. Never would I have felt the need to run out my back door and leave my home to an intruder. Neither do I think that any of my neighbors have felt they didn't have the same rights.

Things may be different in Miami of Jacksonville, or Orlando, but common sense has ruled, to good measure, in this part of Florida.
I'm very familiar with the Big Bend area. We only arrested one homeowner, but it was obviously staged. For the most part we looked at it as street justice. Of course that was back when we could kill somebody for bouncing a $100 check and running from us when we went to serve the warrant. *sigh* Those were the good old days.
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