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Old 12-27-2010, 04:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
How in the wide wide world of sports can you compare a guy wearing a shirt to a guy that likes to molest little kids? There is a big difference there.

1. Guy wearing a shirt is not hurting anyone.
2. Guy wearing a tshirt didn't break the law.
3. Guy wearing a tshirt is not a dam kid toucher.

So try to find something else to come up with.
I think you totally missed the point of my last post. Let me explain it a different way, so you can understand...

Your average person often gets upset when their favorite football team is beaten, which is a very small thing in the grand scheme of life. I've seen and heard about people getting in fights, because another person is wearing a competing team's jersey. Again, it's a stupid reason to pick a fight with someone else. So, if people can be affected by such small things, imagine how easily they would be affected when confronted with a suspected (but not yet convicted) pedophile?!?

So, the point of my last post is this:

Police are supposed to remain emotionally impartial while detaining a suspect. They are NOT supposed to be judge and jury. It takes a strong person to hold back your personal feelings while arresting these scumbags, and the police are SUPPOSED to be this strong and emotionally unbiased.

If a trained officer can't control his/her emotions while detaining someone for this terrible crime, maybe next time they will rough up a careless/dangerous driver, then a PI suspect, then a jaywalker who mouths off to them, and finally someone who's wearing a shirt they don't like.

You see, I am trying to say that a police officer needs to be held to a higher degree of scrutiny, because so much trust and power is put in their hands. They need to remain impartial to even the worst suspects, otherwise it becomes a slippery slope. And, you know there are some corrupt officers who abuse their power, and probably harass people for no good reason.

Remember, too, that I said a regular person like me would love to see these horrible criminals get beaten. I understand the difference between the extremes of comparing a pedophile to a cowboys fan. I see people get out of their car and try to fight someone who cut them off in traffic. I've seen people get beaten unconscious for mouthing off to someone at a bar. People have bad tempers, but an officer has to be able to remove themselves from that. They have to be impartial for the smallest or greatest offense and let the judge and jury hand down the punishment.

Now, do you see what I was saying? And, by the way, it is damn and not dam. A dam is a giant barrier constructed to control the flow of water.
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:56 PM   #22
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1. Guy wearing a shirt is not hurting anyone.
I forgot to touch on this point. In these Dateline stings, the suspects were not immediately hurting anyone. There was no actual child present and none of the men showed any signs of aggression. None of the suspects had any sort of weapon on their body at the time (one man out of a few hundred had a handgun in his car, which he was approximately 50-75 feet away from at the time of the arrest).

Please understand that the courts are supposed to deal with the hurt and abuse that these men were trying to cause. That is the court's job, not the arresting officer.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:18 PM   #23
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And, by the way, it is damn and not dam. A dam is a giant barrier constructed to control the flow of water.
So what happens if a child molester is standing on top of the Hoover Dam, and gropes a child. Would he now become a "Damn Dam Child Molester"
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:19 PM   #24
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I was a bit of a trouble maker in my teen years so I had a fair amount of contact with police officers. LOL
For the most part I always dealt with pretty cool guys that were just doing their job, didn't seem to have a chip on their shoulder or anything like that.
There is one nearby town here where the cops have a very bad reputation. It is a small town and the cops are basically allowed to behave however they want and the judge backs their word/actions no matter what. I attribute most of it to the fact that it is a very small town, with a low pay scale. Because of that they have a high turn over rate. They hire entry level officers that tend to over react to situations and or think they have something to prove. Then after they have a few years of experience and have settled down, they move on to a higher paying department and the cycle starts all over again with a newbie.
I'm sure things are different all over the country between police departments.

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Old 12-27-2010, 05:36 PM   #25
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I forgot to touch on this point. In these Dateline stings, the suspects were not immediately hurting anyone. There was no actual child present and none of the men showed any signs of aggression. None of the suspects had any sort of weapon on their body at the time (one man out of a few hundred had a handgun in his car, which he was approximately 50-75 feet away from at the time of the arrest).

Please understand that the courts are supposed to deal with the hurt and abuse that these men were trying to cause. That is the court's job, not the arresting officer.
So basically you're saying intent is not a crime? Mind you it is not a crime but probable cause in some cases.
These POSs had all intentions to molest and violate a child and yet a firm or stern reaction to that isn't warranted? Now I'm not talking about putting a bullet in one of them but what the OP was referring to that I got was the take down.
Is there a proper way to take a scumbag down? If so please enlighten me....
Have you ever tried putting cuffs on a pissed off suspect? Lets not get into the ones who want to resist and make a name for themselves.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:42 PM   #26
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So what happens if a child molester is standing on top of the Hoover Dam, and gropes a child. Would he now become a "Damn Dam Child Molester"
My hope is that someone would throw him over! A jury would probably go light on the guy/girl that tossed him off the side.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:06 PM   #27
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So basically you're saying intent is not a crime? Mind you it is not a crime but probable cause in some cases.
These POSs had all intentions to molest and violent a child and yet a firm or stern reaction to that isn't warranted? Now I'm not talking about putting a bullet in one of them but what the OP was referring to that I got was the take down.
Are you arguing both sides of the point?!? I never said these men didn't intend to harm a child. I said there was no aggression and actual harm at the time of the arrest. The men talked to Chris Hansen and then calmly walked out of the house. It's not like the police walked up on a suspect as they were strangling a victim. The judge and jury dealt with the intent. These men received, on average, a year to three years in jail for the intent. The point is that there was nothing more than a person calmly walking down a driveway at the time of the arrest... most with empty hands and no weapon-shaped bulges under their clothing.

I never said these men never committed a crime. I said the police need to detain suspects in a manner equal to the situation. If a man is sulking with his head down and calmly walking back towards his car, you don't need to detain him like he was waiving a mac 10 in the air and shouting terrorist threats!

And, again... as an individual with three children, I'd prefer to do as much harm to these terrible people as possible. I am only discussing the fact that a police officer NEEDS to separate his/her personal views from his/her work. They need to be above us "average" people who want to see these bastards get pummeled.

Please understand this thread is not supposed to be about the terrible pedo suspects. It's supposed to be about police remaining impartial, so they can effectively do their job without letting emotions get in the way. When police start letting emotions dictate their actions, we will start to see more brutality for smaller and smaller offenses. We will start to see police throwing their weight around just because they can.

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Is there a proper way to take a scumbag down? If so please enlighten me....
Have you ever tried putting cuffs on a pissed off suspect? Lets not get into the ones who want to resist and make a name for themselves.
I never said that force should NEVER be used. If you've read each of my posts, I clearly state that force may be needed in some cases. A "pissed off suspect" will obviously be showing signs of aggression. I'll cut you some slack and assume that you haven't seen the Dateline investigation before, otherwise you'd know that all the men thrown to the ground and bashed were not showing any aggression during both the interview with Chris Hansen and during the arrest outside. I would've never noticed the difference in detaining procedures, had the suspects been aggressive in Florida. I would've assumed, "Oh, those guys are putting up a fight. Heck yeah, their going to get the smack down from the police!"

The reason I noticed the contrasting procedures was the consistency in suspect attitude and actions. They were all non-confrontational with both Chris Hansen and the police. It was the arresting officers that showed a wide variable.

I'm surprised that some of you think it's OK for police to ratchet up their physical aggression based on what the suspect has been accused of. The police are NOT there to hand out punishment. They are there to stop and detain suspects and gather evidence so the courts can decide guilt and punishment. This is The United States of America, not China.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecPro View Post
So basically you're saying intent is not a crime? Mind you it is not a crime but probable cause in some cases.
These POSs had all intentions to molest and violate a child and yet a firm or stern reaction to that isn't warranted? Now I'm not talking about putting a bullet in one of them but what the OP was referring to that I got was the take down.
Is there a proper way to take a scumbag down? If so please enlighten me....


Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
How in the wide wide world of sports can you compare a guy wearing a shirt to a guy that likes to molest little kids? There is a big difference there.

1. Guy wearing a shirt is not hurting anyone.
2. Guy wearing a tshirt didn't break the law.
3. Guy wearing a tshirt is not a dam kid toucher.

So try to find something else to come up with.
OK, lets make the unconvicted, accused, Suspect a Latino-looking person in a rural MS delta town (not many Latino LEO's).



Let's not forget, the police officers are NOT the Judge, the Jury, or the Warden dealing with CONVICTED CRIMINALS. In this situation, the police officers are dealing with citizens who have not been (to the officers' knowledge) convicted of anything, at least not at that address/time/incident. These officers are running a sting operation with NO REAL DANGER to any children. IMO, they should be using only the force needed to restrain & detain the ACCUSED sicko pervert bastid, so that the ACCUSED can be tried in a court of law with a Judge and Jury as guaranteed to the ACCUSED sicko perv by the United States Constitution, the same document that (with amendments) codified your right to KBA.

Policeman does not = Judge, this isn't China afterall.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:02 PM   #29
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OK, lets make the unconvicted, accused, Suspect a Latino-looking person in a rural MS delta town (not many Latino LEO's).



Let's not forget, the police officers are NOT the Judge, the Jury, or the Warden dealing with CONVICTED CRIMINALS. In this situation, the police officers are dealing with citizens who have not been (to the officers' knowledge) convicted of anything, at least not at that address/time/incident. These officers are running a sting operation with NO REAL DANGER to any children. IMO, they should be using only the force needed to restrain & detain the ACCUSED sicko pervert bastid, so that the ACCUSED can be tried in a court of law with a Judge and Jury as guaranteed to the ACCUSED sicko perv by the United States Constitution, the same document that (with amendments) codified your right to KBA.

Policeman does not = Judge, this isn't China afterall.

Exactly! Exactly!! Exactly!!! You get it.

Some of us seem to forget the role of police vs the roll of a judge and jury vs the roll of a lynch mob. I want my police to be as respectful as possible, my judge to be as unbiased as possible and my DA to be as uncompromising as possible. That's the best way to ensure the criminals get what's coming to them, without any doubt of their innocence or guilt. If people were as kind and considerate as possible, maybe we wouldn't even need the police, judge and jury... but, it's not a perfect world.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:35 PM   #30
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I mean no desrespect to any Law Enforcement Officers but I have noticed the use of excessive force (in my opinion) with some of these suspects also. I had not narrowed it down to a specific police department but just that the suspects did not have a chance to respond before being (arrested). These suspects are one of the lowest type of person there is but they should have a chance to follow an officers instructions before being gang tackeled. BUT like everything else it is the few bad ones that give the rest of them a bad reputation.

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