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janikphoto 12-24-2010 08:58 AM

Are Florida cops really THAT bad?!?
I was watching some old Dateline NBC Chris Hansen "To Catch a Predator" re-runs on MSNBC and got a chance to see several different city and state police departments in action. Most of the departments across the country were as you'd expect... Authoritative and swift, but not excessively aggressive or physical with the suspects.

I was surprised by two things:

First, The Riverside, CA department was overly nice, quiet, civil and polite to the suspects. Common sense would've had you believe they were being too quiet and polite, possibly allowing the suspects to feel like they could get the upperhand. However, their arrests appeared to be the smoothest and easiest of all the episodes. They didn't have to throw anyone to the ground. They quietly told everyone to turn around, and they were able to handcuff everyone without resistance.

Second, A Florida city (I forget the exact city) was nearly brutal with everyone. The FL dept. threw everyone to the ground and put knees in their backs or on their necks. They had multiple officers screaming multiple commands at once. One officer tore a suspects cellphone from his hand and threw it far away across the driveway. Several suspects had cuts and scrapes. What I assumed would've been an effective way of subduing a suspect suddenly appeared to be a horribly chaotic and messy arrest.

Now, let's not confuse this topic of police procedures with the horrible actions of the predators/suspects on the show. I personally think they deserved to be arrested, convicted and thrownin prison. I was shocked during the follow-up info to see than so many of them only received 90 or 180 days in jail for their actions. Preying on children, they deserved so much more. However, this thread wasn't created to discuss them or their actions. I am trying to find out what makes certain police procedures OK in one city and not in the next.

The show mentioned that "because of the ability to easily obtain a Concealed Carry permit in Florida, the police had to act that way." Not a direct quote, but a summary of their excuse... Really? Do the FL police throw every speeder and red light runner to the ground because they might also have a legal CC firearm on them? For half a second, I thought to myself, "Oh, that makes sense... wait a minute?!? That is total BS!" Police don't automatically get to brutalize the public because they are in a CC state?!?!? It's not the CC citizens they have to worry about, it's the illegal firearms they should fear!

Oh, and the other funny thing about these two depts? Riverside had a 100% conviction rate of the men shown and the Florida dept had to drop the charges on two of the men?!? Surely a coincidence, not related to the way they handle their arrests, but still... I was shocked that the least aggressive dept came out looking like the winners. So, ultimately I ask, "Are Florida Cops really THAT bad? t what point do you NOT treat the public in such a physical manner?"

7point62 12-24-2010 12:34 PM

I'm not a LEO but I'd expect the level of professionalism varies with every department. Not just in Florida, but everywhere. One city in CA is not indicative of the entire state, nor is one city in FL. But the conviction rate you refer to may have a great deal to do with procedure. It makes perfect sense to me that the sloppier the procedure, the fewer convictions.

JonM 12-24-2010 01:27 PM

ive seen those episodes and if im not mistaken it was msnbc voice over that said that ccw was the reason for the rough treatment. the police did not actually say it. msnbc is also violently anti-gun anti-constitution and hates america in general.

im not sure if COPS is still airing but you will see similar actions by police around the country. some cops will behave that way some wont.

i like to call that attitude the batman complex. i was in the military police for 5 years and i dont remember ever raising my voice to anyone to get em to do what i wanted. even the guy i arrested for beating his kid so severely he nearly died. an authoratative presence is far more effective than screaming and yelling like a fool. from beligerent drunks to violent thugs that found their way into the military bars i resorted to physical violence maybe 2 times to tackle running peeps. i never felt the need to abuse the power i was given and act like a tin god.

lots of people ascribe worship to police. i dont. they are no different than anyone else you meet day to day. they got a ****ty job but they signed up for it. no one twisted their arms to do it. like anyone else from fry cook to president you gotta earn respect before you can expect it. the uniform gun and badge give them means to enforce authority but they do not mean automatic reverence.

i do not hate cops i just understand that police are human beings. good bad and ugly. some depts will promote violence by cops others wont. that is purely a reflection of leadership. lapd is a prime example. for years the top brass covered up cop violence as a way of life until hand held cameras started making in-roads on institutional police abuse that was purely driven by the leadership allowing it to happen and covering up for the bad cops. it did not make all cops in the lapd evil but it does represent what can happen and does illustrate the fact cops are just people.

just remember that msnbc has an overall agenda to overthrow the constitution no different than the democratic party.

Overkill0084 12-24-2010 08:01 PM

With regard to the charges sticking to the perps in "to catch a predator." I read somewhere a while back, the methods employed by the production of the show in some cases actually complicated the prosecution of the suspects. I don't remember specifics, but essentially the drama of the show took precedence over due process. So, in at least a few cases, the lack of conviction may not be the fault of the LEOs present.
Maybe that's why the LEOs are hostile, they are being used as props in a docu-drama and know that many of the cases will be thrown out later. I know I'd be a bit hostile.

culdee 12-24-2010 08:29 PM

cop on the block
There is a disturbing growth of anti-police violence in America. In part I believe this is due to the perception that police are becoming more brutal, less compassionate, less tolerant. Is that perception correct? I don't know but I do know that the police today are a far cry from the ones I knew growing up. They are more aggessive, abusive, and seem to be all to quick to pull weapons and get extreme. Maybe they watch too much TV. I understand the nature of their job is dealing with the criminal element. They need to remember that we are not all criminals and in fact none of us are until a jury and judge say so. It bothers me to see this growing wedge betwen the protectors of scoiety and society itself. People I have known all my life are becoming more and more anti-LEO through bad encounters with out- of-control police. Perhaps, in some cases, the violence against cops is simply a scared reaction of a less trusting public. I want to make the point that I do not approve of any violence toward police and I sincerely hope the trend will reverse itself.

havasu 12-24-2010 08:55 PM

I'll refrain from leaving any comments. Merry Christmas everyone!

7point62 12-24-2010 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by culdee (Post 408629)
the police today...are more aggessive, abusive, and seem to be all to quick to pull weapons and get extreme.

I really have to disagree with you here. Cops were a lot more brutal 30-40 years ago. And well before that. Miami-Dade, Chicago, LA, Alabama, Mississippi, New have no idea. Those were some mean dudes. And there weren't any video cameras or cellphones or dashcams back then.

ironsights 12-24-2010 09:23 PM

It has to be due largely to Video, think Rodney King, the Helio flying over head and shooting the video of the beating. Every phone has a camera, and maybe this is good to keep things on the up and up, but I think we lose the LEO making a decision to let the 1st time offender go for a minor thing, now we are video-taped doing something stupid and we watch it on You tube and the whole world know how stupid we were for 10 seconds.

I believe it certainly must change the LEO view of cutting some lead way.

JonM 12-24-2010 09:44 PM

police violence is hugely reduced compaired to 40 years ago. when it does happen today it gets caught on tape an broadcast worldwide giving a perception of increased violence by cops when in actuality its at a all time low.

fixxer 12-25-2010 02:17 AM

I agree. I think a lot of these so called violence increases can be attributed to media. In some cases though, I believe that the media is responsible in creating awareness of of the situation. When we don't know it exists before and suddenly see it happening, we tend to incorrectly attribute this to a "growing" trend.

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