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-   -   "Fix" the Second Amendment, huh? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/fix-second-amendment-huh-106115/)

clr8ter 04-12-2014 07:36 PM

"Fix" the Second Amendment, huh?
 
<a href='http://www.newser.com/story/185223/judge-stevens-5-words-can-fix-2nd-amendment.html?utm_source=newser&utm_medium=embed& utm_campaign=story' target='_blank'><img style='width:240px;border-width:0px;' alt='' src='http://img2-cdn.newser.com/square-image/185223-20140411185224/judge-stevens-5-words-can-fix-2nd-amendment.jpeg'></a>

I ran across this in Newser just now. I wasn't aware that there was anything wrong with it. Re-reading it just now, the 2nd doesn't appear to be very clear as to it's INTENT. Maybe back when it was written, it was, I don't know. Are there any other supporting texts that clarify whet, exactly they were thinking about when the wrote it? As I understand it, they meant for the people to have guns if they wanted, and to form Militias, if they wanted, in order to keep the Federal Govt. from getting out of control. But the actual text doesn't really say that....

Opinions?

Overkill0084 04-12-2014 09:03 PM

I remember this from some time back. I think Stevens published a paper or did a speech, but whatever. He was wrong then, he's wrong now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html?hpid=z1

He may have a wall full of fancy sheepskins, but he don't know jack about militias in the context of the founding.

Quote:

“a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
That aside, even if one looks at it and thinks the militia is some sort of dessert, the final phrase "The right of the people to keep & bear arms, shall not be infringed" should shut the door on any further shenanigans.

Quote:

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed.”
Douchenozzle's revision actually reverses the intent of the founders.

The founders considered "a well regulated militia" to be a necessary evil, thus an armed populace was considered necessary to prevent oppression by said "well regulated militia."
Local militias prior to the revolution were pretty informal affairs. Show up after church, drill a bit, talk some smack and finish up with a couple pints before heading back home. As I understand things, "well regulated Militia" is founder-speak for an army or probably more correctly, what we would consider the national guard. Which by any reasonable standard is an arm of a potentially oppressive government.

Modern Liberalism attempts to change the meaning of what seems like a fairly simple phrase.
If I were to have the opportunity to edit the 2nd amendment, I would simplify it so that even a liberal supreme court justice could understand it:
Quote:

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Note: I don't have an Ivy league law degree (or any constitutional law training for that matter. Hell, I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), so take it as you will.

Edit - Another take on the issue:
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/12/john-paul-stevens-helpfully-rewrites-the-constitution-for-you/

Quote:

All in all, a better title for this book would be, Six Reasons You Should Thank God I’m Not on the Bench Anymore. Even if Stevens’ replacement wasn’t any better, this is a prime example of the kinds of “thinking” which will be in favor when the court sees a solid majority of such “thinkers” at SCOTUS. The sub-title for the book could have read, “My plan to finally edit that pesky Constitution and remake America the way I think it should be.”

JonM 04-12-2014 09:09 PM

The well regulated militia gives each individual state the gaurantee the federal government cannot disarm the state. The section about right of the people to keep and bear arms ensures the federal government and states cannot disarm we the individual people.

It does two things preserving the rights of the states and the rights of the citizen to keep and bear arms.

Nothing ambiguous about it. Its clear as crystal and only the worst stripe of oppressive totalitarian sees any ambiguity there.

kryptar19 04-12-2014 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 1556691)
The well regulated militia gives each individual state the gaurantee the federal government cannot disarm the state. The section about right of the people to keep and bear arms ensures the federal government and states cannot disarm we the individual people.

It does two things preserving the rights of the states and the rights of the citizen to keep and bear arms.

Nothing ambiguous about it. Its clear as crystal and only the worst stripe of oppressive totalitarian sees any ambiguity there.

Never been said better.

TekGreg 04-12-2014 09:31 PM

The Founders' Second Amendment: Origins of the Right to Bear Arms by Stephen P. Halbrook was one of two books used by the Supreme Court in overturning recent legislation meant to change the intent of the Second Amendment. It is a highly fascinating read with references to other documents written at that time that were clear to the intent of the Founders when the Bill of Rights was written.

To be clear, the term "Militia" as the Founders referred to is every able-bodied (not senile or unable to hold a gun) man and boy (old enough to function a gun, generally considered to have a minimum age around 12-14) able to fire a weapon and capable of understanding commands. It had nothing to do with state-formed militias or state's rights to form a guard unit, and it most certainly NEVER was to be a power controlled by the federal government.

It's primary purpose was to make the largest defensive force available to defend the colonies from invaders. However, its secondary purpose was to overthrow a corrupt dictator should he gain power in America and, as such, not under government control. The Founders felt that the second amendment would keep a King from ever getting into power and installing a government that was dictatorial in nature. The term "militia" was used to refer to organized units that would take orders from a just command structure, not to refer to discontented bands of marauders just shooting politicians for fun and profit. "Militia" differentiates between criminal activity and an organized overthrow of a corrupt government.

For these reasons, The Second Amendment was kept intentionally short so as not to be misinterpreted or ambiguous. Therefore, all these attempts at "clarifying" the Amendment are just more gun control propaganda to erode the rights preserved for us by the Founders.

-06 04-12-2014 09:40 PM

"They" can interpret it anyway they like but in the end the meaning comes from the smoking end of a firearm. That is the reason it is there---not for hunting rights, not for national guard/etc., but for the militia(those able to carry a rifle and have the guts to use it).

alsaqr 04-12-2014 09:49 PM

Justice Stevens was a "moderately conservative" justice. Stevens was appointed to SCOTUS by president Ford.

Changing the BOR requires a Constutional Amendment. Thankfully, it won't happen any time soon, if ever.

Axxe55 04-12-2014 10:22 PM

notning complicated to interpret behind the words. clear as a bell.

rather funny that children have no problem understanding something that adults can't comprehend.:rolleyes:

so what part needs fixing? nothing!

toroboy 04-12-2014 10:34 PM

The "fixing" part that's needed would require "neutering" anyone who thinks the 2A is in need of being rewritten...


You can't be a pimp and a prostitute too...

John_Deer 04-13-2014 02:37 AM

People need to get over the idea that morality can be legislated. We can keep an orderly society but we can't make people behave.

I dunno with the way the war on drugs is working maybe we should let guns be outlawed. Then everyone will have a gun and the price will drop by half.


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