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Old 08-11-2011, 08:28 PM   #11
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They're not watching the bad guys. They're watching the good guys.
Of course they are; they already KNOW the bad guys mean them ill. I'm imagining a sheepdog smelling the sheep to make sure they are sheep, because he knows what a wolf looks like.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:52 PM   #12
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Of course they are; they already KNOW the bad guys mean them ill. I'm imagining a sheepdog smelling the sheep to make sure they are sheep, because he knows what a wolf looks like.
I don't like the analogy. They're the wolves, we're the sheepdogs and the rest of the populace are sheep. But that's a digression we don't need to get into right now.

What I meant was that by lumping good folks in with pond scum breeds contempt and distrust. That's stupid. The FBI and other agencies should be working with us and encouraging self-reliance. Maybe my foil hat's on too tight yet again, but it almost seems they've decided who the enemy is likely to be at some point. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:02 PM   #13
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It is politically expedient to demonize folks like us. We disrupt the status quo and therefore must be neutralized or worse. The sheep will just go along with whatever propaganda they're spoon fed.

Big Brother has been around forever. He's just become larger, more intrusive and incredibly arrogant.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:06 PM   #14
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I don't like the analogy. They're the wolves, we're the sheepdogs and the rest of the populace are sheep. But that's a digression we don't need to get into right now.

What I meant was that by lumping good folks in with pond scum breeds contempt and distrust. That's stupid. The FBI and other agencies should be working with us and encouraging self-reliance. Maybe my foil hat's on too tight yet again, but it almost seems they've decided who the enemy is likely to be at some point. I hope I'm wrong.
You have to look at it from the Fed point of view. They feel they are protecting their sheeple & watching out for wolves in sheeps' clothing threatening to threaten their status quo. All that is left for them to do is to protect their masters by quelling dissent amongst the sheeple. They have become the English of the Colonial Period seeing the colonists as colonists only and not the founders of a new country.

It seems obvious that they have decided where the next threat to the establishment they represent will come from. Now, they are just trying to figure out who, in particular, is standing where the next threat will come from.

The time for major change has been upon us for some time. I doubt it will be pleasant or without strong resistance from the entrenched, empowered emperors of our age.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:13 PM   #15
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That is also the 1st time I've heard of or seen a letterhead logo from the BJA?

of justice assistance?......when did they come into the picture or have I just been ignorant of them all this time.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:30 PM   #16
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I made an anonymous call to report the old lady down the street. Saw her with her knitting needles and a bunch of yarn.


Said she was gonna knit an Afghan..........




Read thru the sheet. So- paying CASH instead of a credit card is an indicator of potential terrorist activity, huh? Since the MERCHANT is not getting charged 3-5% by the credit card companies, I suppose I should quit haggling for a discount for cash, huh?

Please excuse me, time for me to go take my bitter pill, and then have to go cling to my guns and my Bible..........
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CA357 View Post
It is politically expedient to demonize folks like us. We disrupt the status quo and therefore must be neutralized or worse. The sheep will just go along with whatever propaganda they're spoon fed.

Big Brother has been around forever. He's just become larger, more intrusive and incredibly arrogant.

Thank you CA357 for that astute observation.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:07 PM   #18
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Just a little Devil's Advocacy here:

Why is this any different than wanting to buy a one-way plane ticket using cash on the day of a flight or wanting to learn how to fly an airplane, but not take off or land?

Those damn feds, keeping an eye on me as I buy my plane ticket due to a last minute change!

The point is that it's up to the store owners to keep an eye out. It's not spying; you're in their place of business.

It's the whole NYSubway "If you see something, say something." It's up to the individual to determine whether or not "something" is something. But they are providing some tips. They're not saying that anyone that does anyone of these things in any form is suspicious.

Oh, and I guess everyone here is AGAINST profiling, right? Oh wait, you want Mohamed to be profiled, but you don't want profiling when it includes your behavior? Interesting.

What if this is based on actionable intelligence? What if they knew, but did nothing. Who'd be screaming that the gvt let this happen so that they could enact more laws against law abiding citizens (ala gunrunner).

Any one of these things would not likely draw suspicion, but if someone were hitting multiple bullet points, wouldn't you be a little concerned.

However, this line bothers the hell out of me:
Quote:
"Some of the activites, taken indvidually, could be innocent (but they didn't stop there) and must be examined by law enforcement professionals in a larger context to determine whether there is a basis to investigate."
(emphaisis mine)
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:17 PM   #19
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Exactly knfxda, just like McCarthyists wanted back-in-the-day investigate until you find something, regardless of whether it was there to begin with or not.

I see your point about profiling; i'm just not 100% on the profiling points they like.



When i was a tax auditor [ducks flying vegetables], there were auditors who went out looking for cheaters and auditors who went out looking for taxpayer mistakes and auditors who just went out aiming to help the taxpayers get it done correctly. Who do you think assessed the most tax? Yup, if you go looking for something intently enough, you can probably find it whether it was originally there or not.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knfxda View Post
Just a little Devil's Advocacy here:

Why is this any different than wanting to buy a one-way plane ticket using cash on the day of a flight or wanting to learn how to fly an airplane, but not take off or land?

Those damn feds, keeping an eye on me as I buy my plane ticket due to a last minute change!

The point is that it's up to the store owners to keep an eye out. It's not spying; you're in their place of business.

It's the whole NYSubway "If you see something, say something." It's up to the individual to determine whether or not "something" is something. But they are providing some tips. They're not saying that anyone that does anyone of these things in any form is suspicious.

Oh, and I guess everyone here is AGAINST profiling, right? Oh wait, you want Mohamed to be profiled, but you don't want profiling when it includes your behavior? Interesting.

What if this is based on actionable intelligence? What if they knew, but did nothing. Who'd be screaming that the gvt let this happen so that they could enact more laws against law abiding citizens (ala gunrunner).

Any one of these things would not likely draw suspicion, but if someone were hitting multiple bullet points, wouldn't you be a little concerned.

However, this line bothers the hell out of me: (emphaisis mine)
What you're doing, and it's correct, is pointing out that actions taken by terrorists a) may never again be taken by terrorists and b) may also be taken by innocents thus leading to unreasonable and unnecessary persecution of innocent folks. That's fine as far as it goes.

The implication here, though, is that folks who might visit surplus stores and buy certain items are worthy of being watched even though the notion of "radical right-wing nutbar" is a product of media twunts who have painted a picture for the nation of who "survivalists" or "preppers" are: Timothy McVeigh-esque screw-ups hell bent on destroying <fill-in-the-blank> for <insert-grievance-here>. The FBI seems to be taking that to the next step.

There's an element of probability that should enter into the judgment call that seems to be missing and there's the rub. We have over 12,000 examples of radical islamic lunacy following 9/11. How many cases of mass-murder or attempted shenanigans have been committed by preppers since then?

Last edited by bkt; 08-11-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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