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Old 06-20-2010, 03:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dzscubie View Post
Flintlock,

I respect your opinion and understand your belief in open carry and right to do so. I do however disagree with your blanket belief that if someone disagrees with your opinion that they are contributing or have the same belief as the anti-gun Brady group. I have lived in Alaska and I can understand how open carry can be acceptable to the majority of the population as Alaska is still considered the last great frontier. But, and this is a big but, the lower 48 is a complete different animal even though we would like to consider it the same. In my opinion you can’t compare the environment in Alaska with the environment in most of the lower 48 states. An example is how would people in downtown Las Angles react to a moose walking down the street and how people in Alaska would react you just can’t compare them as they are conditioned by their environment. In my opinion open carry is very similar as you can paint it with a broad brush and say accept it because I have the right and I’m going to do it and even if it bothers a lot of people well that’s their problem. I think education and a non-in your face approach is what is needed to correct the misconceptions that have pervaded our society on guns, but that is my opinion only. All I’m saying is yes I believe in the right of open carry but I also believe in being responsible and respectful of other people’s beliefs and concerns. Again this is my opinion.
I appreciate your post and thanks for your tactful response.

My main beef is that I find it offensive that people on the internet seem to think they know why I have preferences on carry - such as to be something that I am not nor have ever considered to be. To consider myself a hero or some macho fella is laughable. I just simply couldn't explain to you if you don't already know.. The notion that one is an antagonist or has some sort of dark agenda while exercising a natural right is beyond absurd to me. It actually saddens me that it comes from fellow gun owners, it really does.

I support all methods of carry and sometimes that means in the open. There is no hidden agenda. The constitution is clear and so are the laws of my state. The arguments against my belief are emotional, not factual and I disagree with you that it doesn't meet the standards of the anti gun groups. I have had debates from anti's as many of you have and that is precisely what they say and how they say it.

You are right about one thing and I have mentioned as such already. People are products of their environment. In my locality firearms are a part of life. Most have them here and in fact, I don't know enough people that don't to make it statistically significant. Carrying openly around the major towns is not as common as when people are out in the field or the salmon streams but you don't get dropped jaws or people freaking out and running for the nearest police officer. It's just a different place, I understand that.

However, I lived in Virginia for 11 years and that state is essentially the birthplace of the open carry movement. It is a growing phenomenon throughout the nation. The desensitization of the sheep and cattle of America is happening, albeit slowly. Hopefully it will for the misinformed gun owners as well.

Hopefully, gun owners such as the one's that disagree with me on this forum, will come to understand the true meaning of the 2nd amendment and that the propoganda over the last 50 years that has demonized gun ownership and the carrying of them wll be reversed in time.
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dgunsmith View Post
Open carry has caused the City Manager of Longmont Colorado to ask the City Attorney to draft an ordnance banning open carry in City Buildings and Library's.

This is due to a loud mouth activist that comes to City Council meetings with his pistol on his hip.

This same guy routinely comes into City Offices and the "Female Employees" are intimidated by seeing the pistol. They would not be IF he acted adult and didn't raise his voice about every issue dear to him.

The City Manager has NO PROBLEM with CCW in the same facilities as they are not visible and people have a right to defend themselves. CCW holders would still be able to have their concealed firearms under the proposed law.

Open Carry advocates: learn from this !
Learn from what? That fella doesn't represent me and it's not anything I would do. Just like concealed carry advocates preach, punishing the many for the mistakes of the few is wrong.

I think you people are not reading my posts fully. I believe in concealed carry as well!!! I just don't have a problem with open carry either!!!

Accepting the fact that your only method of carrry has to be concealed is just wrong. Being forced to hide your weapon makes it look like carrying a firearm is wrong and one should be forced to hide it so as to not offend anyone. I just don't buy that notion and I never will.
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:04 PM   #23
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Alot of good points in this thread. I open carry, not to make a statement, or prove I'm a man. I open carry because I can, because I refuse to be a victim of a criminal who could care less about how he carries his gun, and because a right not exercised is a right quickly lost. At this point I cannot afford a CCW, maybe in the future, but for now open carry is all I have. It's better to open carry a gun than not carry a gun at all.

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Old 06-20-2010, 09:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pandamonium View Post
This is some thing I learned recently( thanks BKT), the second ammendment only limits the FEDERAL government, states are free to make all the gun laws they want. This because the 2A was never incorporated to the states, as was the 1A. That is where the whole problem lies,IMO.
The Supreme Court will be taking on this issue in the Illinois handgun case (sorry I don't know the citation). They are taking on, squarely, the question, "Does the 2nd Amendment apply to the states as well as individuals?" The SC already affirmed that the RKBA is an INDIVIDUAL right, not a right reserved for military/militia members. We are on the right path...pun intended.
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:17 AM   #25
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I have a Michigan CPL (Concealed Pistol License). However, I OC most of the time. "Why?" you might ask, because I don't want to have to dress for the gun. I dress for me. In this (summer) weather, if I'm not working, then I dress to be comfortable. Most of that time, OC fits a lot better than CC. Specially if you're packing a full size semi-auto. And I hate IWB holsters.

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Old 06-21-2010, 05:53 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
The Supreme Court will be taking on this issue in the Illinois handgun case (sorry I don't know the citation). They are taking on, squarely, the question, "Does the 2nd Amendment apply to the states as well as individuals?" The SC already affirmed that the RKBA is an INDIVIDUAL right, not a right reserved for military/militia members. We are on the right path...pun intended.
Correct, this is McDonald vs Chicago, I have my fingers crossed and pray for finding in favor of 2A!
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:47 PM   #27
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This point I'm about to make has been made before, but here goes. I won't open carry because that would make me a major focus of 1) verbal attack, 2) BG attack because I'm the biggest threat, or 3) someone's fear that I'm about to hurt them. I don't want to scare people or flex my constitutional muscle.

I just quietly carry my firearm in a responsible, legal, and discrete manner.

Not to say open carry shouldn't be legal! You can't get much more accessible than a tactical holster on your thigh.
Verbal attack that is PURE BS. Ignore them and they will go away. As for a BG singling you out sure they are going to do that. But, if you are situationally aware of your surroundings then you will see them checkin you out.

3. Is a border line reason for me. Here in VA we have an open carry law. If you carry openly you don't need a permit just a gun and holster. I am sure that up next to DC your going to draw more attention than down south in the sticks. I open carry from time to time. Mainly when I am headed out ground hog hunting. We stop at gas stations and what not and no one ever looks twice at me. Three guys walk into a store all with 1911 on their hips and no one even looks at us a second time.

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Originally Posted by Flintlock View Post
None of the negatives you mentioned about open carry are prevalent on a day to day basis. I have open carried in multiple states and all of what you mentioned is absurd. If you are not willing to "flex your constitutional muscle," then perhaps you should re-evaluate your reason for carrying in the first place. Just my opinion.

I think your wrong Just because a person makes a choice to be discrete about something then why should they lose a right? DO you not talk quietly when you don't want people to over hear you? Then by your definition you should lose the right to free speech.....

If an ADULT says you know I have my kids and wife with me and I am going to CCW today then you should applaud him packin heat no matter what.


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Originally Posted by murraywc View Post
Maybe your reason to carry is to make a statement or scare people. That is not what was intended when the second ammendment was added to the Bill of Rights. It was added so that we could have protection and a way to hunt to provide for ourselves. People did not die in the wars to provide us with a right to show off our hardware. I think open carry is an irresponcible way of making a statement. I'm all for carrying but in a discreat manner.
Again why are you upset at how any one chooses to carry? I don't OC because I want to scare people. I OC because it is my right to do so. When we start pickin at each other about stuff that is legal and ok to do then we might as well just take cut off saws to all of our guns and our testicles.

I guess because guns and hunting is a major part of life in VA that it is looked as differently. Now I don't see many people OCing all the time. Mainly because if you spent any time in the military you can get a CCW with $15 and some paper work along with a copy of your DD-214. Even a civilian never been in the military takes one class 8 hours does some shooting and they can get a ccw.

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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Don't yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, and
(IMO) using OC to show how much of a "man" one is, really shows immaturity and is a good reason for one not to own a firearm.
Maybe you need to look at yourself, if you are so immature that you can't see that some in this country have a right to OC and choose to exercise that right. Then maybe you need to rethink why you own firearms. If people have a right and choose to exercise it then I am all for it. Just like is someone wants to run down the street waving an american flag or any other flag as long as it is not hurting someone and it is legal then I am all for it. As you should be too. Just like somone painting their house bright pink. It's not hurting you don't look if you don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Flintlock View Post
You are severley misinformed if that's what you believe. The second amendment says nothing about protection or hunting. It is not about duck hunting or shooting burglars. It certainly isn't my intention to scare people but I don't have any control about how others think or feel. It concerns me how people dress, tattoo and pierce themselves, but I don't think it should be illegal or wrong just because I think it is weird.

Furthermore, it disturbs me that there are gun owners out there that only believe in the part of the second amendment that says "to keep" and not the part that says "to bear." Goodness gracious...
Your best argument yet. I am in totaly agreement with your last part of your statement. Don't get mad is someone chooses to do something different that you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
I believe in carry, but not as a way for someone to prove that they are "macho".
The only person I see here that is trying to prove how macho they are is you. Flint and many others have valid reasons for OCing. If you don't like it then don't do it but you MUST respect the right of others to do it if it is LEGAL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat-inCO View Post
Sounds like far too much testosterone, to me.

The majority of people living in metropolitan areas understand that, while legal in many states, open carry is very close to "tugging on Superman's cape" or "spitting into the wind". Why would anyone with more than half a brain go out to purposely antagonize others?

People that live in large metropolitan areas (well, at least many of them) have come to realize that "shall issue" avails them of a way to legally carry in a mode that DOES NOT make them stand out, that DOES NOT antagonize others, that DOES NOT provoke unnecessary attention of Law Enforcement. Any that have jobs in large corporations understand that unnecessary attention of Law Enforcement often means "looking for a new job", so avoid it when ever possible.
Again when we choose to OC we are not doing it to harm anyone we are doing it to exercise our rights and to protect ourself. Sure CCW is not as stand out as OC but If flint wants to open carry then that is his right and again you MUST RESPECT that right. Just like I must respect your right to say stupid sh!t.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzscubie View Post
Flintlock,

I respect your opinion and understand your belief in open carry and right to do so. I do however disagree with your blanket belief that if someone disagrees with your opinion that they are contributing or have the same belief as the anti-gun Brady group. I have lived in Alaska and I can understand how open carry can be acceptable to the majority of the population as Alaska is still considered the last great frontier. But, and this is a big but, the lower 48 is a complete different animal even though we would like to consider it the same. In my opinion you can’t compare the environment in Alaska with the environment in most of the lower 48 states. An example is how would people in downtown Las Angles react to a moose walking down the street and how people in Alaska would react you just can’t compare them as they are conditioned by their environment. In my opinion open carry is very similar as you can paint it with a broad brush and say accept it because I have the right and I’m going to do it and even if it bothers a lot of people well that’s their problem. I think education and a non-in your face approach is what is needed to correct the misconceptions that have pervaded our society on guns, but that is my opinion only. All I’m saying is yes I believe in the right of open carry but I also believe in being responsible and respectful of other people’s beliefs and concerns. Again this is my opinion.
What can I say to that we must all bow at the alter of scubie. the man is right on many levels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgunsmith View Post
Open carry has caused the City Manager of Longmont Colorado to ask the City Attorney to draft an ordnance banning open carry in City Buildings and Library's.

This is due to a loud mouth activist that comes to City Council meetings with his pistol on his hip.

This same guy routinely comes into City Offices and the "Female Employees" are intimidated by seeing the pistol. They would not be IF he acted adult and didn't raise his voice about every issue dear to him.

The City Manager has NO PROBLEM with CCW in the same facilities as they are not visible and people have a right to defend themselves. CCW holders would still be able to have their concealed firearms under the proposed law.

Open Carry advocates: learn from this !
These are the guys that people see. They don't see guys like me who just OC because it is easy and they are on the way to the range or hunting. I don't bother anyone I don't act any different when I am OCing and I always wear a smile.

It is to bad he does represent us all. That is what many of you need to understand is that as a group we all get lumped together.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:36 AM   #28
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Verbal attack that is PURE BS. Ignore them and they will go away. As for a BG singling you out sure they are going to do that. But, if you are situationally aware of your surroundings then you will see them checkin you out.

3. Is a border line reason for me. Here in VA we have an open carry law. If you carry openly you don't need a permit just a gun and holster. I am sure that up next to DC your going to draw more attention than down south in the sticks. I open carry from time to time. Mainly when I am headed out ground hog hunting. We stop at gas stations and what not and no one ever looks twice at me. Three guys walk into a store all with 1911 on their hips and no one even looks at us a second time.




I think your wrong Just because a person makes a choice to be discrete about something then why should they lose a right? DO you not talk quietly when you don't want people to over hear you? Then by your definition you should lose the right to free speech.....

If an ADULT says you know I have my kids and wife with me and I am going to CCW today then you should applaud him packin heat no matter what.




Again why are you upset at how any one chooses to carry? I don't OC because I want to scare people. I OC because it is my right to do so. When we start pickin at each other about stuff that is legal and ok to do then we might as well just take cut off saws to all of our guns and our testicles.

I guess because guns and hunting is a major part of life in VA that it is looked as differently. Now I don't see many people OCing all the time. Mainly because if you spent any time in the military you can get a CCW with $15 and some paper work along with a copy of your DD-214. Even a civilian never been in the military takes one class 8 hours does some shooting and they can get a ccw.



Maybe you need to look at yourself, if you are so immature that you can't see that some in this country have a right to OC and choose to exercise that right. Then maybe you need to rethink why you own firearms. If people have a right and choose to exercise it then I am all for it. Just like is someone wants to run down the street waving an american flag or any other flag as long as it is not hurting someone and it is legal then I am all for it. As you should be too. Just like somone painting their house bright pink. It's not hurting you don't look if you don't like it.



Your best argument yet. I am in totaly agreement with your last part of your statement. Don't get mad is someone chooses to do something different that you.



The only person I see here that is trying to prove how macho they are is you. Flint and many others have valid reasons for OCing. If you don't like it then don't do it but you MUST respect the right of others to do it if it is LEGAL.



Again when we choose to OC we are not doing it to harm anyone we are doing it to exercise our rights and to protect ourself. Sure CCW is not as stand out as OC but If flint wants to open carry then that is his right and again you MUST RESPECT that right. Just like I must respect your right to say stupid sh!t.




What can I say to that we must all bow at the alter of scubie. the man is right on many levels.




These are the guys that people see. They don't see guys like me who just OC because it is easy and they are on the way to the range or hunting. I don't bother anyone I don't act any different when I am OCing and I always wear a smile.

It is to bad he does represent us all. That is what many of you need to understand is that as a group we all get lumped together.
I think you may have misunderstood me a little. I support all methods of carry and have stated as such on other posts in this same thread multiple times. I personally carry concealed as well.

My point that you quoted was to suggest that if your reason for not open carrying is because you "don't want to flex constitutional muscle" then I would wonder why one would carry in the first place.

Since I don't believe the origins of the second amendment have anything to do with hunting or shooting burglars, that raises a few questions from me. Constititional muscle is what it is all about - at least for me.

I could care less how someone else carries but if they are not supportive of my carry choice, I would hope they would at least have a better argument than admitting they don't want to flex their constitutional muscle.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:55 PM   #29
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I open carry in Las Vegas wherever I can. Nevada is a "can carry" state and 99.9% of the time, Metro doesn't give you a second look. The only "looks" I get, when I notice them, are usually from those people with out of state license plates (mainly from the People's Яepublik of Kalifornia). I open carry because it is my right to do so, and because I want to. My thinking on the matter, for what little it might matter, is that if more and more gun owners DO open carry, the holophobistic "dread" in this country just might be overcome.

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Old 06-27-2010, 09:58 PM   #30
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+1 Tango! For your beliefs in what is right!

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