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Dillinger · 10-05-2012, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one

I am all for disarming the regular beat cop everywhere. If criminals are so bad that LE departments need to ramp up to paramilitary style training/tactics/equipment than it is time to call in the National Guard and go all Big Red One on them

Bystanders and innocent civilians being shot in NYC are are not isolated incidents

And I would agree. Just because you are a cop, doesn't make you a crack shot or a perfectionist when it comes to the firearm.

But how many cops does NY have? Then how many incidents do they respond to over a given year?

Then factor both of those against how many incidents you are talking about.

I don't see the math making it logical to disarm our "first" line responders in the form of the police.

If you do, then anyone with, say, a .458 Socom home build and a desire to rob a bank is going to have FREE REIGN when the alarm goes off because there will be NO ONE that can stop him.

Is that the world you want to live in?

Really??

I am ALL FOR required training and required re-quals, even every 6 months.

But if you want to take the guns out of the hands of the first badge on the scene, I need to say no sir.

JD

Dillinger · 10-05-2012, 02:14 AM

Double tap somehow....

**dog2000tj** · 10-05-2012, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger

And I would agree. Just because you are a cop, doesn't make you a crack shot or a perfectionist when it comes to the firearm.

But how many cops does NY have? Then how many incidents do they respond to over a given year?

Then factor both of those against how many incidents you are talking about.

I don't see the math making it logical to disarm our "first" line responders in the form of the police.

If you do, then anyone with, say, a .458 Socom home build and a desire to rob a bank is going to have FREE REIGN when the alarm goes off because there will be NO ONE that can stop him.

Is that the world you want to live in?

Really??

I am ALL FOR required training and required re-quals, even every 6 months.

But if you want to take the guns out of the hands of the first badge on the scene, I need to say no sir.

JD

The NYPD can't stop bank robberies now - http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/armed-bank-robberies-in-nyc-on-the-rise-1.2725828

I most certainly do believe that the local beat cop in NYC needs to be disarmed. No amount of training will overcome the lowered hiring standards due to quota practices enforced by the NYSC

It's not tactical training these cops need, it is verbal communication and social skills they lack

besides, i would never rob a bank using a 458SOCOM

..... i'd go with the AR15 with 2 Beta mags and an additional 12 Pmags, a 3 man entry team and 2 getaway drivers

oops ... I've said too much

LandMonster · 10-05-2012, 02:31 AM

This notion, of disarming leos, is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

Old_Crow · 10-05-2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger

And I would agree. Just because you are a cop, doesn't make you a crack shot or a perfectionist when it comes to the firearm.

But how many cops does NY have? Then how many incidents do they respond to over a given year?

Then factor both of those against how many incidents you are talking about.

I don't see the math making it logical to disarm our "first" line responders in the form of the police.

If you do, then anyone with, say, a .458 Socom home build and a desire to rob a bank is going to have FREE REIGN when the alarm goes off because there will be NO ONE that can stop him.

Is that the world you want to live in?

Really??

I am ALL FOR required training and required re-quals, even every 6 months.

But if you want to take the guns out of the hands of the first badge on the scene, I need to say no sir.

JD

The difference between NYPD and other police departments is NYPD feels they have to get the bad guy instantly. Our local bank got robbed. An off duty officer was leaving the liquor store across the street. He saw the robber and followed him. About 11 miles down the road in a wooded area a joint team of state troopers and sheriff's deputies stopped the bank robber. A gunfight ensued and the bank robber lost his life. No officers or bystanders were injured. The suspect was robbing his seventh bank in multi-state robbery spree. Why can't big city cops show that kind of discipline?

Dillinger · 10-05-2012, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

The NYPD can't stop bank robberies now - http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/armed-bank-robberies-in-nyc-on-the-rise-1.2725828

I most certainly do believe that the local beat cop in NYC needs to be disarmed. No amount of training will overcome the lowered hiring standards due to quota practices enforced by the NYSC

It's not tactical training these cops need, it is verbal communication and social skills they lack

And while I see your veiled point, you have to admit that a broad brush is NOT what is needed in painting this picture.

The only other option is to agree that NONE of the NYPD cops are good with their weapon, train with their weapon, love 2A and WANT to be a hero.

I refuse to believe that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

besides, i would never rob a bank using a 458SOCOM

..... i'd go with the AR15 with 2 Beta mags and an additional 12 Pmags, a 3 man entry team and 2 getaway drivers

oops ... I've said too much

We should talk off line about this item, I have a few thoughts myself. And I know a driver who has been to, well, let's just say a "driving academy".

**dog2000tj** · 10-05-2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandMonster

This notion, of disarming leos, is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

tell that to the Irish

**dog2000tj** · 10-05-2012, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger

And while I see your veiled point, you have to admit that a broad brush is NOT what is needed in painting this picture.

Maybe not, but as it stands now it will be the NYPD's fault for inciting civil unrest and riot outbreaks, the likes of which they will have no chance of controlling or putting an end to

If they refuse to change their ways it will only be a matter of time before the cross the wrong person with the wrong friends. Keep in mind, just like in the 70's and 80's, there are sections of NYC today that NYPD will not show a presence in

Quote:

We should talk off line about this item, I have a few thoughts myself. And I know a driver who has been to, well, let's just say a "driving academy".

the key details are diversion and surprise ... use those two and the world is your oyster

Old_Crow · 10-05-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

Maybe not, but as it stands now it will be the NYPD's fault for inciting civil unrest and riot outbreaks, the likes of which they will have no chance of controlling or putting an end to

If they refuse to change their ways it will only be a matter of time before the cross the wrong person with the wrong friends. Keep in mind, just like in the 70's and 80's, there are sections of NYC today that NYPD will not show a presence,

But NYPD didn't hesitate to line up and drive the unarmed "occupiers" out of town. Like the occupiers or not they were exercising their right to assemble and air their grievances. NYPD would do the same thing to a TEA Party protest.

**orangello** · 10-05-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

But NYPD didn't hesitate to line up and drive the unarmed "occupiers" out of town. Like the occupiers or not they were exercising their right to assemble and air their grievances. NYPD would do the same thing to a TEA Party protest.

Sure they would; the Tea Partiers probably wouldn't be armed either; bullies go for easy targets with gusto, like bloomersberg has abused the citizens of his city, including the various protest groups, armed & dangerous criminals are a tougher target.

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