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Old 12-29-2010, 10:34 AM   #11
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The folks that live in states (NJ, CA, IL, etc.) that pile on a bunch of crap have 2 choices:

Move to a free state

Elect a legislature that will remove the restrictions

The majority of the country does not suffer from this stuff...

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Old 12-29-2010, 11:20 AM   #12
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On the other end of the spectrum, the dealer selling me the handgun or another firearm has a responsibility to take reasonable steps to make sure I am a law-abiding citizen. This reasonable step could be a NICS background check. I am not clear exactly what the NICS background check checks, but if it only checks guilty verdicts and innocents due to insanity, I would support it since a right is taken through a court of law. Also, the check is very quick, just a few minutes, from what I hear. It won’t take 9 months or, if New Jersey “Law Enforcement” obeyed the law, 30 days.

Doing this nationwide would take away cities’ and states’ power from trumping the Second Amendment, as was in Chicago and D.C. People could purchase firearms everywhere in the country. And if enforced, it would stop criminals and the mentally insane from obtaining firearms; something both pro and anti-gun supporters want. Now anti-gun supporters don’t want anyone to have any firearms. They could move if they don't like the constitution. Please weigh in or correct me if I am wrong anywhere. I think this could bring some good discussion out.
Why do we as a society tolerate violent convicted felons and those who are mentally handicapped and potentially prone to visiting violence on someone to walk among us? Get rid of the violent criminals and the crazies and the argument for any background checks or permits falls apart.

There is absolutely no provision in the Constitution that permits the federal government to oversee who may and who may not acquire arms. 2A says quite the opposite, in fact. Most state constitutions have clauses with similar wording to 2A.

What we lack is the testicular fortitude to challenge these laws through a series of court cases.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:45 AM   #13
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My favorite part about the system we have now is that whole state's rights thing. I'm a big fan of that.
I am for states rights too, but the states don't have the right to infringe the people's right to keep and bear arms due to the 10th Amendment.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

As for moving. I am currently in college so moving isn't the easiest thing for me. So I have gone with the election rout.

I could see how it is suspious this being my first post, but I ussually talk to people I know about firearms. I wanted to get opinions from people not from Jersey. As I could see, this is mainly a Jersey problem.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:14 PM   #14
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You hit the perverbial nail on the head bkt. Tolerance is the problem and yet it's all we hear anymore. It's the mantra of the dems, libs and progressives. I have even seen tolerance rear it's ugly head among conservatives and gun owners and look where it's gotten us. And yet the dems, libs and progressives have zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them. I don't know who their PR guy is but he's a freaking genious.

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Old 12-29-2010, 01:15 PM   #15
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Translation- the problem is New Jersey.

A-freakin-men.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:50 PM   #16
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I live in Illinois. I applied for my FOID card, got it in about 4 weeks and was able to go buy my gun.
Also, to buy ammo, the same thing. Show the seller my FOID card and I buy my ammo. As far as I know, the only thing I can't do in Illinois is carry and I'm not ready for that responsibility yet. I know everyone says Illinois is a anti-gun state. Does that just mean you can't carry?
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:14 PM   #17
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I am for states rights too, but the states don't have the right to infringe the people's right to keep and bear arms due to the 10th Amendment.
[Devils advocate]
The way I see it is the state's aren't infringing on the rights. What they're doing is regulating them. Much like they SHOULD require IDs for voting, making sure no one yells "Fire" in crowded theaters, requiring permits for rallies, etc etc etc.

[/Devils advocate]

My main argument against centralizing (which is another word for Federalizing) gun ownership laws is how easy it would be to change the laws if large groups of anti-2A types start to get elected to federal office like in the past it'd be a lot easier to get the law changed.

This becomes especially important when you notice the way the left works compared to the right.

The right for the most part doesn't get rid of laws what we do is change the laws to make them more efficient and cost less.

On the other hand, the left will slowly edge their way towards what they want even if they only get a little bit at a time.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:56 PM   #18
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Here is a concept of how firearm sales could be. Please don’tj just jump out against this idea. I am throwing this out their for everyone to talk about.

How about getting rid of all of these permits to purchase firearms?
Permits? What permits?

In Ohio, like many states, I walk into the gun store. Fill out the background check form. Pay the man, and walk out with gun in hand. This goes for hand guns and long guns. I can purchase long guns the same way out of state in PA, W.Va. and KY. The only time I need a concealed carry permit in Ohio is to have one concealed and loaded in my vehicle.

As others have stated, Jersey is a problem.

WoC, yes Illinios is anti-gun. Had the Chicago ban held up, the whole state would not be far behind. To have to purchase a permit to even buy a gun or ammo is anti.
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...without the Second, we cannot protect the rest!
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:29 PM   #19
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Permits? What permits?

In Ohio, like many states, I walk into the gun store. Fill out the background check form. Pay the man, and walk out with gun in hand. This goes for hand guns and long guns.
^^^ What he said. I can remember a dove hunting trip in college during which i realized i didn't have a shotgun with me; we stopped off for ammo at a pawn shop & i picked up a Mossy pump-12 while my buddy used their restroom and got his hunting license.

Growing up here in MS, i honestly never realized the lengths some Americans must go to for their firearms fix.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:56 AM   #20
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Agreed on this- if you don't like native law, MOVE!

I am a fan of VA's ccw purchase. Hopefully KS will be soon to follow. Although I just learned of a KS FFL dealer who recently sold a gun sans a phonecall because the purchaser flashed a ccw permit. Which could ultimately lead to this dealer losing his license.
I must admit to have done worse things in my gun store, one thing I have learned with the ATF, if you don't make the same mistake twice, everything will be OK
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