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Old 05-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #111
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Il State Rifle Association and NRA lobby have publicly stated they will kill any "may issue" crap that anti 2nd ammendment people try to serve.

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Old 05-21-2013, 01:14 PM   #112
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They had a chance to pass very restrictive bills several years ago and
passed. They just folded their arms, closed their eyes and shook their heads
no. No they have lost almost all of their leverage, yet they continue to trot
out bad bills from dreamland and denialville. It is a very, very rare sight
these days to see liberal democrats backed into a corner with no where to
go. I'm not that crazy about Phelps 997 bill, but with the three weeks left
there is still plenty of time for something to happen.
They are like a bunch of little kids that want to take their ball and go home
but the problem it isn't the ball isn't theirs any more.

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Gov Quinn would love to see the Il AG take this to SCOTUS as it would work against her if she decides to oppose him for Governor. A loss by her on the appeal would affect other states and I don't think she wants to do that.
Very observant, it will be interesting what she does. I am sure the rabid
antis are pushing her hard to appeal, but he smarter ones may not at this
point. Wait until they have a better stacked deck in the Court.

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Il State Rifle Association and NRA lobby have publicly stated they will kill any "may issue" crap that anti 2nd ammendment people try to serve.
They will put all effort forth but in the end it is the elected ones that have
the final say, that is why are phone calls, emails and letters are so very
important.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:54 PM   #113
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I wonder what Constitutional Carry implies regarding reciprocity? Would an Oklahoma carry permit enable me to carry in Illinois under Constitutional Carry?

BTW, on topic, looks like 19 days to go.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:41 AM   #114
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If nothing has passed into law by the morning of June 10th, then guns laws on the books as we know them cease. In Illinois, local municipalities greater than 25,000 will have the authority to enact local home rule regulations regarding when and where and whose guns are allowed. Depending on their severity, they may be challenged in court. If you live in a town of less than 25k, then you will be unaffected.
You can be certain that while the latest Democrat nonesense bill is choking and spitting, there is a flurry of behind the scenes workings of the likes Illinois has not seen in a long time. You will hear the terms "common sense, compromise, etc" on the podium, but there is a lot of simmering tension turning to panic on the part of gun control pols. The old saying of "A watched pot never boils" doesn't apply in this case. These final few weeks are going to be very, very interesting.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:35 AM   #115
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If nothing has passed into law by the morning of June 10th, then guns laws on the books as we know them cease. In Illinois, local municipalities greater than 25,000 will have the authority to enact local home rule regulations regarding when and where and whose guns are allowed. Depending on their severity, they may be challenged in court. If you live in a town of less than 25k, then you will be unaffected.
Not quite, it is not clear if Home Rule Governing bodies have the ability
to enact gun control laws or not. If not specifically controlled by State legislation do they have authority to override Federal law? No they cannot, you are correct in that it will end up in court. We can hope it ends up on Posner's court room again. I am thinking we might be very surprised how many Home Rule Cities, Towns and Village do not do anything.

If Phelps bill pass with 60% votes that will preempt home rule that can still happen after June 9th and be legal.

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You can be certain that while the latest Democrat nonesense bill is choking and spitting, there is a flurry of behind the scenes workings of the likes Illinois has not seen in a long time. You will hear the terms "common sense, compromise, etc" on the podium, but there is a lot of simmering tension turning to panic on the part of gun control pols. The old saying of "A watched pot never boils" doesn't apply in this case. These final few weeks are going to be very, very interesting.
You got that right.

Here is some info on Home Rule, nice and vague, unlike the Second Amendment, shall not be infringed.


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SECTION 6. POWERS OF HOME RULE UNITS
(a) A County which has a chief executive officer elected by the electors of the county and any municipality which has a population of more than 25,000 are home rule units. Other municipalities may elect by referendum to become home rule units. Except as limited by this Section, a home rule unit may exercise any power and perform any function pertaining to its government and affairs including, but not limited to, the power to regulate for the protection of the public health, safety, morals and welfare; to license; to tax; and to incur debt.
(b) A home rule unit by referendum may elect not to be a home rule unit.
(c) If a home rule county ordinance conflicts with an ordinance of a municipality, the municipal ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.
(d) A home rule unit does not have the power (1) to incur debt payable from ad valorem property tax receipts maturing more than 40 years from the time it is incurred or
(2) to define and provide for the punishment of a felony.
(e) A home rule unit shall have only the power that the General Assembly may provide by law (1) to punish by imprisonment for more than six months or (2) to license for revenue or impose taxes upon or measured by income or earnings or upon occupations.
(f) A home rule unit shall have the power subject to approval by referendum to adopt, alter or repeal a form of government provided by law, except that the form of government of Cook County shall be subject to the provisions of Section 3 of this Article. A home rule municipality shall have the power to provide for its officers, their manner of selection and terms of office only as approved by referendum or as otherwise authorized by law. A home rule county shall have the power to provide for its officers, their manner of selection and terms of office in the manner set forth in Section 4 of this Article.
(g) The General Assembly by a law approved by the vote of three-fifths of the members elected to each house may deny or limit the power to tax and any other power or function of a home rule unit not exercised or performed by the State other than a power or function specified in subsection (l) of this section.
(h) The General Assembly may provide specifically by law for the exclusive exercise by the State of any power or function of a home rule unit other than a taxing power or a power or function specified in subsection (l) of this Section.
(i) Home rule units may exercise and perform concurrently with the State any power or function of a home rule unit to the extent that the General Assembly by law does not specifically limit the concurrent exercise or specifically declare the State's exercise to be exclusive.
(j) The General Assembly may limit by law the amount of debt which home rule counties may incur and may limit by law approved by three-fifths of the members elected to each house the amount of debt, other than debt payable from ad valorem property tax receipts, which home rule municipalities may incur.
(k) The General Assembly may limit by law the amount and require referendum approval of debt to be incurred by home rule municipalities, payable from ad valorem property tax receipts, only in excess of the following percentages of the assessed value of its taxable property: (1) if its population is 500,000 or more, an aggregate of three percent; (2) if its population is more than 25,000 and less than 500,000, an aggregate of one percent; and (3) if its population is 25,000 or less, an aggregate of one-half percent. Indebtedness which is outstanding on the effective date of this Constitution or which is thereafter approved by referendum or assumed from another unit of local government shall not be included in the foregoing percentage amounts.
(l) The General Assembly may not deny or limit the power of home rule units (1) to make local improvements by special assessment and to exercise this power jointly with other counties and municipalities, and other classes of units of local government having that power on the effective date of this Constitution unless that power is subsequently denied by law to any such other units of local government or (2) to levy or impose additional taxes upon areas within their boundaries in the manner provided by law for the provision of special services to those areas and for the payment of debt incurred in order to provide those special services.
(m) Powers and functions of home rule units shall be construed liberally.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

HOME RULE QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

WHAT IS “HOME RULE”?

Under the 1970 Illinois Constitution, Home Rule shifts decision making from the state level (Springfield) to the local level (Edwardsville) enabling communities to find local solutions to local problems.

Home Rule communities are granted a broad range of powers for the local good unless exempted by the State. Often a Home Rule community is exempted from meeting requirements mandated by state legislation.


HOW DOES A COMMUNITY BECOME HOME RULE?

Municipalities with populations over 25,000 are automatically granted Home Rule status, while smaller communities can put the question on a ballot and let voters decide. The majority (over 70%) of Illinois’ 12.5 million citizens live in Home Rule communities. Among Illinois communities having Home Rule, 55% attained Home Rule status by voter approval of a Home Rule referendum. No community has petitioned to revoke Home Rule status in the past 20 years.


WHAT NEARBY COMMUNITIES ARE HOME RULE?

Alton Collinsville O’Fallon Belleville

Cahokia East. St. Louis Fairview Heights

Granite City Mascoutah Sauget


WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF HOME RULE?

The retention of Home Rule would provide Edwardsville greater protection from state mandates and the ability to solve problems at a local level. Specifically, major benefits frequently associated with Home Rule are threefold:

Maintaining Community Character

Non Home Rule communities can only exercise powers explicitly given to them by the Illinois statutes and laws. Home Rule gives greater and more flexible powers to local decision makers to address local problems and less dependence on the State legislature to regulate. Local voters have greater access to the decision makers with more accountability. With home rule the City has greater flexibility to preserve neighborhoods and address growth. Edwardsville would have direct control over important issues that impact property values and community character.

Increased Financial Flexibility

Edwardsville’s long-term financial stability is being impacted by decreasing revenues (a reduction in state revenues, slow equalized assessed valuation growth, and development fees) coupled with increasing expenses (higher insurance, pension and health care costs, aging infrastructure, and additional state mandates). Home Rule is not only a flexible tool that endorses local decision making; it enables sound long-term fiscal planning.

Home Rule would provide Edwardsville with the flexibility to explore new funding sources, such as a licensing/inspection fee for residential rental businesses, restaurant tax, real estate transfer tax, etc. and provide the ability to tax non-residents (daytime population) for programs and services furnished by the City to non-residents (for example Gas Tax and Sales Tax) making the community less reliant upon property taxes as a source of revenue.

Home Rule status would also allows the City to use the existing Hotel Tax revenue for infrastructure (streets, sewers, etc.) instead of limiting its use solely to tourism.

Home Rule communities have more flexibility in regard to debt offerings often resulting in lower interest rates and a strengthened bond rating.

Reduced Regulation from State Mandates

Home Rule can afford Edwardsville greater protection against state control.

State legislatures often impose unfunded mandates on local governments to provide certain services that fail to provide a revenue source to offset the cost of those services.



WHAT ARE THE POTENTIAL DISADVANTAGES OF HOME RULE?

Home Rule gives local government greater discretion to generate revenues through issuing bonds and increased taxes or fees -- i.e., property and sales tax increases, restaurant tax, residential rental inspection fees, etc.

Home Rule permits greater local control over decision making without state oversight and without certain procedural limitations.

Property Tax caps do not apply to Home Rule communities



WILL PROPERTY TAXES INCREASE UNDER HOME RULE?

Based on the research of Professor James Banovetz, widely regarded as the foremost expert on Home Rule in Illinois, there is no evidence that Home Rule municipalities have higher or faster growing property taxes than comparable non-Home Rule municipalities. In fact, Home Rule status is often used to shift the tax burden from property taxes to other revenue sources, such as licensing fees, restaurant tax, sales tax, etc. This would diversify the revenue base and reduce the burden on property owners. Communities that have adopted Home Rule status have seen their property taxes increase at a lower rate than non-Home Rule communities.



HOW DOES HOME RULE AFFECT SCHOOL DISTRICT FUNDING?

Home Rule has no effect on School District 7 as it is an independent governmental and funding body.



HOW DO RESIDENTS CONTROL THE USE OF HOME RULE?

Voters can petition to revoke a community’s Home Rule status. (In Illinois, this has not occurred in the past 25 years.)

Another safeguard for taxation and spending restraint is resident participation in City government and local elections. One-half of the City’s aldermen are up for election every two years, the Mayor every four years. Edwardsville has a long-standing tradition of residents staying informed on local issues and communicating with local officials. If residents view the City Council as not fiscally prudent, residents can vote to change Council membership and leadership.

The Illinois legislature can preempt home rule authority by express or implied legislative action.

Constitutional prohibitions on certain home rule powers, i.e. may not levy taxes on income, occupation, or earnings unless specifically authorized by the State legislature. Also denies certain other powers such as issuing bonds with more than 40 year maturity or defining criminal acts as felonies.

Finally, the Aldermen and Mayor are also residents. They would be personally impacted by any Council action.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:13 AM   #116
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Whether they have the legal ability to enact local regs doesn't matter. Places like Chicago/Oak Park/Cook County have a history of passing regs now and then having them thrown out later under a court order. That is the mindset of these folks. The ISRA has not lost a case yet that involved oppressive gun regs, and in fact have been awarded over $1 million in court fees from Chicago, for example, yet they still continue with the antics. Somehow, they think Illinois is unlike any other state in the union, and is worth of the exception to constitutional gun rights.

Small towns are unlikely to do anything other than tell you to leave your gun in your car when you drive to the post office. Larger communities may post a few more regs similar. But they will be defering to eachother, and not many of them will be willing to go much farther. Chicago on the other hand, why should they care. It's only tax payer money.

Lastly, the fear and the ignorance of many Illinois politicians is simply beyond discription. They portray North of I80 (and Illinois) as an island unto itself. They keep referring to NY as the model state for gun laws. How about our sister states, Mo, Ky, Indy, Wi, etc?

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #117
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Whether they have the legal ability to enact local regs doesn't matter. Places like Chicago/Oak Park/Cook County have a history of passing regs now and then having them thrown out later under a court order. That is the mindset of these folks. The ISRA has not lost a case yet that involved oppressive gun regs, and in fact have been awarded over $1 million in court fees from Chicago, for example, yet they still continue with the antics. Somehow, they think Illinois is unlike any other state in the union, and is worth of the exception to constitutional gun rights.

Small towns are unlikely to do anything other than tell you to leave your gun in your car when you drive to the post office. Larger communities may post a few more regs similar. But they will be defering to eachother, and not many of them will be willing to go much farther. Chicago on the other hand, why should they care. It's only tax payer money.

Lastly, the fear and the ignorance of many Illinois politicians is simply beyond discription. They portray North of I80 (and Illinois) as an island unto itself. They keep referring to NY as the model state for gun laws. How about our sister states, Mo, Ky, Indy, Wi, etc?
Good explanation, you're correct they will try anything and see if it sticks,
we have to fight them, the ISRA is doing in a great job, their membership
is up over 28000 and climbing. FOID applications are at record highs.

The statists are scared they are loosing control, and cornered animals
get very aggressive we just need to be as aggressive!

One of the very good things with the Home Rule Units is they cannot
make any laws that can be felonies. So if you do get caught with a
CCW in town ABC it is only a misdemeanor.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #118
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Rant on.

I bug every gun owner and gun right supporter to join the ISRA, it is only
$25 a year. We have millions of gun owners in Illinois yet less than 30,000
belong to the ISRA. They are working hard to lobby for our rights we should
support them.

How do you support them?

  1. Financially, just through annual dues is enough, extra donation are up to you.
  2. Legislatively, call you State and Federal Legislators
  3. Community wide, tell you friends and neighbors to join and do the same.

Rant off.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:24 PM   #119
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OK, it's been a while. We're down to just a few weeks, 20 days by my calculations. HB0997 has been extensively amended. The first 9 amendments have been withdrawn, but the 10th amendment basically replaces the entire original bill. The synopsis reads the same as the original, or very close, and looks reasonable. But trusting the lawmakers in Illinois to tell the truth about a bill makes very little sense. There was a flurry of activity in April and on 19-Apr it was re-referred to the Rules Committee. Nothing since then.

Anyone have any other information about the alternative bills?d
Is not the bill and amendments thereto online? Or does IL hot share that up publicly like most other states?
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:13 PM   #120
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Is not the bill and amendments thereto online? Or does IL hot share that up publicly like most other states?
There can be up to a 24 hour lag.

http://www.ilga.gov/
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