Convicted felon and guns - Page 12
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Convicted felon and guns

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-14-2010, 07:50 PM   #111
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
superc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Winchester
Posts: 341
Liked 15 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by divinginn View Post
How many believe this is a violation of the second amendment as read by the constitution. I think it is a total violation of the 2nd,but I believe some should not own weapons.
I am with you on all counts. Let's first note the prohibition simply did not exist until 1968. Let's also note the legal definition of a felony is any crime for which a court could potentially sentence you to a year and a day or more if a conviction results. In upstate NY this includes such heinous crimes as having a home which has the wrong kind of septic tanks system. A read of the Federalist Papers gives little cause to believe that even ex-felons should by default lose their rights to self protection.

Long ago under the English and early American systems there were just 9 felony crimes. MR and MRS LAMB. Murder, Robbery, Manslaughter, Rape, Sodomy, Larceny (any amount), Arson, Mayhem and Burglary. Under English law these Common Law crimes were all punishable by death upon conviction. Poor discretionary judgment and abuses of the system such as hanging a starving man over a stolen slice of bread led to changes and variations (such as today's grand larceny vs. petty larceny) and a gradual, growing, reluctance to allow the imposition of maximum sentences.

Sadly in America today a loud element has steadily been convincing legislatures to engage in converting what used to be simple misdemeanors generally not worth much more than 30 days in the local jail into felony crimes. Two guys fighting in the back of a bar's parking lot over some nonsense used to be misdemeanor assaults or disorderly conduct. These days if one has a bloody nose or a split lip it is considered a battery and a felony crime. Used to be the severity of the injury determined if it qualified as a battery. Some of this is the result of an intentional lobbying effort by the anti-gunners. They know you/we are watching and alerting for laws that mention guns. They also know that if you hear of a law imposing a stricter penalty for an existing offense you probably won't pay much attention. We live in a society that throws people in jail for things that were simply ignored when I was a youth. Sadly many of the these new offenses are now felony crimes. Giving your kid a firecracker qualifies in many states as a felony crime. Multiple in fact if we include the initial possession of the firecracker and the transfer. Add another one for the kid if he lights it.

Should such a person who gave his kid a firecracker on the 4th of July, or who engaged in fisticuffs with another drunk a decade or more ago be treated the same as Charles Manson or James Ray? I don't personally think so, but sadly I am neither a legislator or a judge and only they can fix things.

I would support a change of wording to the felony prohibition so that it only applied to the Mr. and Mrs. Lamb with the qualifiers that Kidnapping and Treason be added as worthy of the loss of the right to self protection. I do not believe two guys punching each other, or tax evaders, or even <gasp> some kid possessing three joints should lose their rights forever.
superc is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 08:09 PM   #112
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
superc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Winchester
Posts: 341
Liked 15 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
Gone, no. Curtailed, certainly. Or do you know of any state prison that allows it's prisoners .., carry guns inside the prison, or any of the other things that we have rights to do as free persons.
Sugarbush Mountain TN where the 'trustees' were armed and served as guards, also PA until a few years ago where certain of the trustees were given C.O. badges and allowed to live outside the prison where they worked as guards. The original incarnation of the Dodd Act allowed wardens to issue firearms to selected inmates. Incidents such as a notorious one at Sugarbush where the armed trustess walked up to a loud mouths cell and just shot him through the bars led to further revisions of 18 USC, Ch. 9.

Generally speaking in several states convicted felons also lose their right to vote and even their right to possess a drivers license (not sure if the last is still in effect, but it was in my younger days).

Last edited by superc; 03-14-2010 at 08:09 PM. Reason: added a '
superc is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 01:29 AM   #113
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buffalo,Wyoming
Posts: 103
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

I don't know about other states but Colorado most certainly will deny a drivers license for certain crimes. Felony DUI probably being the most well known, but also for Vehicular Homicide whether associated with DUI or not.

As for the surge in felony crimes, as in defined as? I went down to the Statehouse a few times and attended hearings where I flat out asked why this or that State Senator or Representative wanted the issue at hand to be a felony. Each time the others on the committee listened, and either knocked them down to Misdemeanor, Infraction, or completely blew it away. Citizenship input can, and does make a difference. More so when it is your Senator or Representative and you call them out before their fellows.

Mine was Gwen Green, a purveyor of mysandry, hate, and collectivism. Just make sure that you bring along a few like minded voters so that when S/He says that you must be "the only one in the district that opposes this" you can... Well basically ring their bell right there in front of God and everybody.

Additionally, you are spot on regarding hidden gun control. All to often things are added in under the guise of Public Safety that amount to the taking of rights. One example: Failing to "properly have a minor restrained, as in a car seat or an improperly applied seat belt on a minor get's classified as "Child Abuse." Which? You guessed it! Another law defined as "Domestic Violence." Voila! You just got a lifetime ban via the Lautenberg Act. Not only that, but let's say that the incident happened twenty years ago well before the "Lautenberg Abomination" as I refer to it? You still lose your Second Amendment Rights. Since the Black Crows decided to ignore the Constitution that they swore to uphold, ex post facto law is now the law of the land. If anyone here ends up on a jury, be sure to ask about dates for previous legal encounters, and then refuse to convict if the prosecutor is playing the change the rules after the game has been played card. It is immoral, and, un-Constitutional.
__________________
Sua Sponte!
Patrick Sperry is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 02:45 AM   #114
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buffalo,Wyoming
Posts: 103
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default OOPS Sorry!

I missed one of your most salient points! Lo, many years ago I was the "Free Man" on a brush fire crew in eastern San Diego County. I was a Volunteer Firefighter and as department policy, I was not allowed to be armed... Now, for those that are not familiar with that country the only "crops" are Sagebrush, Manzanita, and Pacific Diamondback rattlesnakes. The solution was that two "Trusted" inmates were to be armed with shotguns.

We never had an untoward incident of any kind. Honor camp apparently beats the hell out of Mainline in San Quentin or Folsom any day...

Just a note: Ronald Reagan later gave full pardons to both of those men, and three others if memory serves me correctly.

After I had returned from my generations war I assumed a similar position. But I was also then a Reserve Deputy. There was no need then for any "trusted" Inmate to have a weapon of any kind. Things had literally gone to hell in a hand basket. The now... Well known problem of prison gangs had largely been absent from the Honor Camps. Nor had racial violence, or rapes.

These things had become common place. Assaults on "Freemen" were now the norm. I said to hell with it, and went to Africa. Any that might wish to read about that join Hunters Central, on Yahoo Groups, Neils place.

In any case; Something that I haven't seen touched upon in this thread is the incredible numbers of Combat Veterans that are in these situations. These are, for the most part good and decent men. Some though? Have a difficult time adjusting to life without the incredible stresses of warfare. Let's toss in Lawmen, Firefighters, and Paramedics / EMT's. I'm not talking about major felonies here. Just so that we all can be straight about that...

Can anyone here provide an explanation why the hell these people cannot regain the Natural Rights of all Men / Women if they have in fact done their time? "Do the Crime do your time." How long does the"time" last?

Do I have a "Dog" in this fight? You bet your bottom dollar I do. My Stepson got his A** whipped in front of the whole world by my Daughter in law and got convicted of "Domestic Violence" in Las Animas County Colorado. All based upon mysandry and political correctness...

That was just to clear the playing field.
__________________
Sua Sponte!
Patrick Sperry is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 01:50 AM   #115
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: frisco,TX
Posts: 199
Liked 15 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 87

Thumbs up on parole

Just what you have been told by that "certain' person already shows that he is a liar. Sorry, but I don't believe in stretching the truth, or I thinks it's ok if.... No, a lie is a lie, period. And it shows lack of respect for others, he doesn't need to be around guns, drugs, alcohol, period. Unless he prefers jail over freedom. He gets it together, he may one day get his 2A back if he's not violent, and a few other legalities. Take care of yourself, you earned your rights.
paul is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 02:13 AM   #116
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbrickracing View Post
Is there any way a person convicted of a felony to legally possess a firearm or are they just banned from ownershp?
I was under the impression that they were not to be around guns period.
I had a friend who had a felony, but his was expunged and not only was he allowed to buy a gun, but they gave him a CPL.
clip11 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 03:05 AM   #117
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buffalo,Wyoming
Posts: 103
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
Just what you have been told by that "certain' person already shows that he is a liar. Sorry, but I don't believe in stretching the truth, or I thinks it's ok if.... No, a lie is a lie, period. And it shows lack of respect for others, he doesn't need to be around guns, drugs, alcohol, period. Unless he prefers jail over freedom. He gets it together, he may one day get his 2A back if he's not violent, and a few other legalities. Take care of yourself, you earned your rights.
Just who are you addressing here Paul?
__________________
Sua Sponte!
Patrick Sperry is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 04:01 AM   #118
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
skullcrusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ohio,Ohio
Posts: 10,949
Liked 18 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sperry View Post
Just who are you addressing here Paul?
And in an old thread, no less. Wait, make that an old and beat to death thread...
__________________
From C3Shooter:
Skullcrusher, you are evil, sick, demented, twisted- and my hero!


Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamonium View Post
...without the Second, we cannot protect the rest!
skullcrusher is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 04:05 AM   #119
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buffalo,Wyoming
Posts: 103
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default chuckles*

No kidding!
__________________
Sua Sponte!
Patrick Sperry is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 04:30 AM   #120
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 156
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sperry View Post
Can anyone here provide an explanation why the hell these people cannot regain the Natural Rights of all Men / Women if they have in fact done their time? "Do the Crime do your time." How long does the"time" last?

Thank you. That statement/question is the bottom line.

I again reiterate: if someone has served their debt to society under the law, completely and uneventfully, including the probationary period, and are pronounced lawfully "free", shouldn't they enjoy all of the rights bestowed upon "free" men under the Constitution?

If they should not, why are they "free"?
TheGunLady is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Felon/guns in the house .22hustler Politics, Religion and Controversy 14 09-03-2009 10:22 PM
Convicted rapist hosts party at nightclub. skullcrusher The Club House 13 05-23-2009 11:55 AM
Voting by Convicted Felons alsaqr Politics, Religion and Controversy 17 10-23-2008 03:41 PM
Owning a gun while living with a convicted felon. CJ5 Politics, Religion and Controversy 6 08-06-2008 04:50 PM
Celebrity/Felon found with an arsenal. Chance_P The Club House 0 03-28-2008 11:33 AM