[Flat Tire]

Originally Posted by Sonic82

Maybe visit the Deport British Citizen Piers Morgan for a refreshing change.

It would be funny if we deported this fool and did nothing about gun control.

[Balota]

Originally Posted by Vincine

I think there was armed security at Columbine. He was killed too.

I wonder what order the killing was done in. Openly armed security guards would be the first targets for an assault. The attacker has the advantage of the first shot(s).

Concealed carry by teachers, janitors, administrators, etc. makes it much harder for the attackers to target the armed folks first. Arming people in the schools will not save the first victim (probably), but it will save some.

And I agree with earlier comments, give / require substantial training for those permitted to carry in the school. At least CLEET level training in firearms.

[Balota]

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

I find it hard to believe that any building could be built, let alone a school, in violation of life safety egress codes. Are you saying there is only 1 means of egress from your classroom - the door?

Even in residential homes it is required to have 2 means of egress in a bedroom - the door and a window.

What about interior bathrooms? Both of the bathrooms in my home have zero windows and one door.

Also, most modern commercial buildings (like schools, office buildings, etc.) have sealed windows for several reasons including energy efficiency and prevention of people jumping out. The exact purpose you are requiring (being able to exit through the window) is one of the reasons why they seal the windows these days! Gotta love the lawyers and their liability-fear mongering.

[eldarbeast]

The security guard at Columbine was outside eating lunch when the attack took place.

He exchanged fire with them from the parking lot, then waited OUTSIDE for the LEO's to respond. THEY waited for the SWAT team to respond.

Everyone waited until no more shots were heard before LEO entered the building.

eldar

[bamashooter68]

Originally Posted by eldarbeast

Everyone waited until no more shots were heard before LEO entered the building.

eldar

Thats what I dont understand. I can see a worthless security guard refusing to do anything but law enforcement should have beeen compelled by duty and honor, not to mention helping those poor kids to get their sorry asses inside that school and hunt down and neutralize the shooters. There is no way I could have stood outside and not done anything regardless of what happens. I guess some people are wired differently.

[AIKIJUTSU]

Originally Posted by bamashooter68

Thats what I dont understand. I can see a worthless security guard refusing to do anything but law enforcement should have beeen compelled by duty and honor, not to mention helping those poor kids to get their sorry asses inside that school and hunt down and neutralize the shooters. There is no way I could have stood outside and not done anything regardless of what happens. I guess some people are wired differently.

I agree. It's hard to fathom calling the police in a panicky situation like that, then see multiple squad cars pull up and watch the officers milling around outside or hiding behind their cars instead of coming into the building. Then after the slaughter is done and all is quiet, for the "SWAT" team to make a circus out of "establishing a perimeter", then putting on a "tactical entrance" show for the public by knocking down an unlocked door, filing in with their shields, helmets, and "tactical" gear with the TV camera crew going ahead of them to record their "entrance".

[Tackleberry1]

Originally Posted by bamashooter68

Thats what I dont understand. I can see a worthless security guard refusing to do anything but law enforcement should have beeen compelled by duty and honor, not to mention helping those poor kids to get their sorry asses inside that school and hunt down and neutralize the shooters. There is no way I could have stood outside and not done anything regardless of what happens. I guess some people are wired differently.

Not making excuses for Colorado LEO's but Columbine was, I believe, one of the first, if not THE first active shooter scenarios where victims continued to be killed with LEO's on sceene.

Prior to this, standard training for "hostage" situations was to secure the perimeter and engage your "negotiator" in an attemp to talk the perps down.


LEO training had not evolved to the point of dealing with psycho killers who's motivation was simply to kill and die...

Similar "behind the curve" mentality contributed to 9-11...no Pilot would have surrendered there Aircraft if they had any idea it would be used as a cruise missle to attack buildings...all previous hijackings were either committed for proffit or the release of prisoners but never had 1 been intentionally crashed.

These factors proove that despite honorable intentions, the government will always be behind the curve and will always be incapable of protecting us. When their arrogance crosses the line of not only failing in there mission but ALSO telling us we can't protect ourselves...that's when it's time to say...

...FU Uncle Sam...I will protect myself not only from criminal attack but I'll put your silly ass down as well if you attempt to interfere with my ability to see to my own security.

Rather that beating up Cops for there repeated and assuredly "future" failures, we do better giving them this message and letting them decide if engaging us is trully in the best interest of the community and themselves.

Tack

[Devin556]

That was extremely well said and I totally agree with you.

[Tackleberry1]

Originally Posted by Devin556

That was extremely well said and I totally agree with you.

Thanks Devin...I see no reason to sugar coat reality or deny the consequences of any attempt to ban gun ownership.

All 80,000,000 American gun owners SHOULD be stating in a very firm voice that BO's wet dream will NOT yield the result he expects...unless that result is a full blown revolution.

It would be one way to diminish the USA...so perhaps he does understand this?

Tack

[eldarbeast]

Originally Posted by bamashooter68

Thats what I dont understand. a worthless security guard refusing to do

In many states the role of a security office has been lowered to just observe and report. Nothing more.

Many armed security officers are limited to using their weapons for self defense ONLY.

Many of the Police Unions throughout the United States have worked hand-in-hand over the last four decades to ensure that these restrictions on security officers are put into law.

Security officers generally make something above minimum wage. Armed security officers earn 2-3 dollars an hour more.

Police officers working as armed security make $35 - 50 dollars an hour.

Security officers are 'worthless' because the police unions have made them so.

eldar