Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > The check list to use your gun. Is this way off or right on?

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Old 11-17-2010, 05:24 AM   #1
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Default The check list to use your gun. Is this way off or right on?

So in a recent thread, i gained some knowledge and insight on drawing your firearm. But i cam across this piece today, and found it to be pretty off base with what i would classify as reason to use my weapon. The site it came from did not seem to be a site of misinformaion. What do you think?

  • Know exactly when you can use your gun.
  1. ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon; you face multiple unarmed attackers; an unarmed attacker has an obvious, substantial advantage in physical ability and/or skill),
  2. opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to immediately harm you), and
  3. intent (hostile actions and/or words) that indicates he means to do you serious or fatal physical harm.
When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that may justify an emergency deadly force response.

First off i am not going to judge whether the person has a substantial advantage. Even if i thought i had a slight advantage in physical ability or skill, i am not going to hope for the best. Second, if they show ONLY (III) i would think there are cases where this would be enough to pull your weapon. I would not want to give them the opportunity to add (II) to the list. But Maybe i am still missing something.


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Old 11-17-2010, 09:50 AM   #2
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Seeing that I am not a lawyer, I think that it is prudent to be careful with providing advice on self defense. Not every state has the same requirements for self defense. Florida has strict guidelines in their state statutes.


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Old 11-17-2010, 10:00 AM   #3
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so does texas

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Old 11-17-2010, 01:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Seeing that I am not a lawyer, I think that it is prudent to be careful with providing advice on self defense. Not every state has the same requirements for self defense. Florida has strict guidelines in their state statutes.
Really, not so much! With the Castle Doctrine and No Retreat Laws on the books, using your weapon is pretty easy in Florida. I will say that the rules of engagement have double standards for men vs. women. A woman is pretty much good to go anytime she "fears for her safety", where men have to meet certain criteria before thay can open fire. If the criminals are in your house or place of business, it's totally up to you whether they are going to be dead meat or not.

Criminal understand all this very well and have become very polite and cautious these days. My guess is that in any crowd down here one third to one half of the folks will be packing.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:20 PM   #5
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This is a very serious topic that I think deserves some attention, but since we aren't lawyers we simply cannot spout off any laws or rules without citing to specific laws, or in states without castle doctrine on the books, the appropriate case law that determines when use of deadly force is justified.

FRED BYRON GILBERT v. COMMONWEALTH does a good job of clearly summing up the issue in Virginia:

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The distinction between justifiable and excusable self-defense claims is well established. "Justifiable homicide in self-defense occurs where a person, without any fault on his part in provoking or bringing on the difficulty, kills another under reasonable apprehension of death or great bodily harm to himself." Bailey v. Commonwealth, 200 Va. 92, 96, 104 S.E.2d 28, 31 (1958). When the accused is free from fault in bringing on the fray, the accused "need not retreat, but is permitted to stand his [or her] ground and repel the attack by force, including deadly force, if it is necessary." Foote v. Commonwealth, 11 Va. App. 61, 67, 396 S.E.2d 851, 855 (1990).
If you screw up and start the fight:

Quote:
"Excusable homicide in self-defense occurs where the accused, although in some fault in the first instance in provoking or bringing on the difficulty, when attacked retreats as far as possible, announces his desire for peace, and kills his adversary from a reasonably apparent necessity to preserve his own life or save himself from great bodily harm." Bailey, 200 Va. at 96, 104 S.E.2d at 31. If a killing is proved to be either justifiable or excusable, the accused must be acquitted.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:13 PM   #6
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I don't care what the law is. If an intruder in my home doesn't run when confronted and advances toward me while I'm armed with a firearn, I suspect they intend to do me bodily harm and they are going to get warned (if there is time) the shot.

On the street, if someone takes a disliking to me and advances toward me with or without a weapon, shouting that they are going to effin kill me, they are going to get shot.

If someone is robbing the establishment I am frequenting, or beating their wife or girlfriend and I have an opportunity to put a gun on them to hold them for police, I will.

These scenarios are simple, what you choose to do won't be; and neither will the aftermath of those actions. Be prepared and do what you have determined is right for you.

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Old 11-17-2010, 05:11 PM   #7
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This is still a very important piece...

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/read-before-you-decide-carry-11962/

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Old 11-17-2010, 05:50 PM   #8
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After reading that piece last week some time (it was my first time seeing it), i add the "always draw twice" rule to my practice. Draw the gun, holster the gun... Draw the cell phone, holster the cell phone. It was a VERY well done piece, and i committed the suggested dialog to memory. I knew to call asap, but i bet under the stress of the moment, i would not remember right away. So i practice a few "double draws" each session.

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I don't care what the law is. If an intruder in my home doesn't run when confronted and advances toward me while I'm armed with a firearn, I suspect they intend to do me bodily harm and they are going to get warned (if there is time) the shot.
On the street, if someone takes a disliking to me and advances toward me with or without a weapon, shouting that they are going to effin kill me, they are going to get shot.If someone is robbing the establishment I am frequenting, or beating their wife or girlfriend and I have an opportunity to put a gun on them to hold them for police, I will.These scenarios are simple, what you choose to do won't be; and neither will the aftermath of those actions. Be prepared and do what you have determined is right for you.
Dunerunner,
Buddy i agree. That is the state of mind where i am ready to defend with deadly force. That is why it set me off reading it. It seems to be really off from what i have prepared myself for. Especially letting someone gain a position, or determining if they are a small guy with a secret black belt . I want control of that situation the second their intent endangers someone else's life or my own.

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T"Excusable homicide in self-defense occurs where the accused, although in some fault in the first instance in provoking or bringing on the difficulty, when attacked retreats as far as possible, announces his desire for peace, and kills his adversary from a reasonably apparent necessity to preserve his own life or save himself from great bodily harm." Bailey, 200 Va. at 96, 104 S.E.2d at 31. If a killing is proved to be either justifiable or excusable, the accused must be acquitted.
mpd8488, I had never really thought about what if i first started a fight(i am too much of an angel i guess ), and had to use deadly force to end it. Nice addition. Gives me something new to look into for here in Kentucky.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:11 PM   #9
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I agree. Lots of knowledge there. I have reread it over and over. Though I sincerely hope I never, EVER have to shoot anyone.


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