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-   -   Carrying in all states (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/carrying-all-states-106742/)

hipoint380 05-04-2014 02:38 PM

Carrying in all states
 
If everyone disobeys a law what could they do? Put us all in jail.

Why isent there a notional move movement to just have all gun owners carry concealed even if the law says no.

JTJ 05-04-2014 02:48 PM

The government would make examples of some carriers and scare off the others. This is a common practice.

clr8ter 05-04-2014 03:19 PM

Because "Everyone" would get together and say "Yeah, let's DO IT!", and then, most people would go home and not do it.

Franklin1995 05-04-2014 03:29 PM

Most people aren't truly willing to sacrifice themselves for their cause, whether it's their life or just some time in jail. They say they would over beers, but when the time comes they back down.

hipoint380 05-04-2014 03:48 PM

Unfortunate that people in a community have no back bones. I'm not one of them. When the S hits the fan snerio. I guess most of us will be alone while the others are scared S-less.

SSGN_Doc 05-04-2014 04:04 PM

There have been movements to change laws in each state. The reason there has not been a great push for nationwide disobedience on this issue, is partly because of the moves forward in many states. First step is to try to change things using the system that is in place in your state.

Where do you live? There may be a group in your state that is already working on legislative changes.

There are also a couple of states who have taken severe backward steps in in acting gun control that required registration of guns or magazines. The laws were so poorly thought out that they will turn citizens into criminals. Those states do have people who are refusing to comply. This will result in arrests and appeals that will end up having to be reviews in higher courts with regard to the constitution. It will be a long and expensive process.

The fact that carry, whether open or concealed, is regulated on a state level, also makes a national movement less likely. States are allowed to make their own rules on the process, and the how, where, etc. that carry will be done in their state.

A national right to carry would be great. A national permit could suck, because it gives a bit too much power to the central govt to place policies for national denial of permits on situational basis.

If you feel your rights based on the constitution are being infringed within your state, you can consider becoming an activist. This can be done by getting involved in the current govt process of changing laws. You can become a demonstrator. You can ignore the law and be prepared to fight it through the court, while you do some jail time, lose your ability to own a gun at all, and pay lawyers to fight the case to the top for a decade or so. You already asked the question, "what can they do?" Check your state laws and find out what will happen if you are caught in violation of the law. Will you do time? Will you lose your right to own a gun? Will it be a misdemeanor with a fine only?

You can always try to find a lawyer in your state who may be involved in firearms cases.

Just some things you can consider.

manta 05-04-2014 04:12 PM

Because most people are law abiding citizens and they don't want to break the law. I am sure there are lots of other laws that people don't like why not refuse to abide by them as well.

Franklin1995 05-04-2014 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manta (Post 1570048)
Because most people are law abiding citizens and they don't want to break the law. I am sure there are lots of other laws that people don't like why not refuse to abide by them as well.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson

Axxe55 05-04-2014 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoint380 (Post 1570041)
Unfortunate that people in a community have no back bones. I'm not one of them. When the S hits the fan snerio. I guess most of us will be alone while the others are scared S-less.

it's wonderful that you are a mind reader and know what people will, or won't do in a given situation.:rolleyes:

Balota 05-04-2014 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoint380 (Post 1570041)
Unfortunate that people in a community have no back bones. I'm not one of them. When the S hits the fan snerio. I guess most of us will be alone while the others are scared S-less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxe55 (Post 1570094)
it's wonderful that you are a mind reader and know what people will, or won't do in a given situation.:rolleyes:

Sadly, HiPoint is right to a large extent.

In the context of this thread, the S will hit the whirligig when law enforcement decides to crack down on people carrying in situations where the law does not allow it. They won't try to search every person in a 10 block area around one person found carrying. They'll just take that person.

If 10 other people who are carrying in the immediate area interfere in the arrest, then the whirligig will start slinging smelly stuff everywhere. But, what HiPoint is saying is that it's much more likely that the other carriers in the area will NOT take action. In that case, the one being arrested will feel very alone and the rest will be scared S-less.

Axxe55 05-04-2014 06:25 PM

fortunately i don't allow others to make decisions for me that i am quite capable of making for myself. nor do i allow others to dictate my actions.

just as i don't make decisions or dictate the actions of others. what a group decides to do or not do is of little concern to me. i have found support to be lacking in the past when i needed it, and i suspect that if needed in the future it will be lacking as well. this why i have learned a long time ago to be able to depend on myself to get done what needs to be done.

clr8ter 05-04-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

just as i don't make decisions or dictate the actions of others. what a group decides to do or not do is of little concern to me. i have found support to be lacking in the past when i needed it, and i suspect that if needed in the future it will be lacking as well. this why i have learned a long time ago to be able to depend on myself to get done what needs to be done.
That's probably the best assumption to make.

What I don't get is why this issue isn't like driver's liscences. Fine, the state controls it, but it's also understood that your DL is good in all 50 states.

manta 05-04-2014 07:37 PM

Quote:

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson
Yes he also thought it was OK to have slaves. I doint make my judgments on the views of someone that died a few hundred years ago. As for getting people to agree to do something, and then do it are two different things. Who decides what laws are unjust ? what one person would see as unjust another could see it as just. Can you see how such a blanket statement could cause problems.

widowmaker 05-04-2014 07:38 PM

A long time ago I worked on a ranch in the Central Valley of California. I worked in the shop repairing equipment. Everyone in the shop complained about the low wages so we all got together to ask the owner for a raise. I was elected to be spokesman for the group. I talked to the boss and after being stonewalled for a month, he offered us a $.05 cent per hour raise. (we were getting $1.35 pr. hr )
I took this as an insult and told him we would all walk. I went back and told the guys what happened and guess who was the only guy to walk away from this cheapskate. Everyone else scattered like cockroaches when you turn the lights on.
I led but no one followed. NEVER again. I will take care of me and mine.

Axxe55 05-04-2014 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widowmaker (Post 1570151)
A long time ago I worked on a ranch in the Central Valley of California. I worked in the shop repairing equipment. Everyone in the shop complained about the low wages so we all got together to ask the owner for a raise. I was elected to be spokesman for the group. I talked to the boss and after being stonewalled for a month, he offered us a $.05 cent per hour raise. (we were getting $1.35 pr. hr )
I took this as an insult and told him we would all walk. I went back and told the guys what happened and guess who was the only guy to walk away from this cheapskate. Everyone else scattered like cockroaches when you turn the lights on.
I led but no one followed. NEVER again. I will take care of me and mine.

thank you for making my point Widowmaker. very similiar to the experiance i had as well. i learned my lesson fully, who i can depend on when things get a little tough and sticky.

hipoint380 05-04-2014 08:27 PM

I just think if people in nj are not going to follow the 10rd mag law that others need to do other things like that for what ever cause you feel is right and just.

alsaqr 05-04-2014 08:36 PM

Quote:

Why isent there a notional move movement to just have all gun owners carry concealed even if the law says no.
Jump right there be a test case. For maximum effect i suggest you open carry in NJ, NY or MA.

Axxe55 05-04-2014 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoint380 (Post 1570177)
I just think if people in nj are not going to follow the 10rd mag law that others need to do other things like that for what ever cause you feel is right and just.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alsaqr (Post 1570180)
Jump right there be a test case. For maximum effect i suggest you open carry in NJ, NY or MA.

as Alsagr suggests, feel free to test it out and then let us know how it turns out.

CJx 05-04-2014 10:00 PM

I wonder what would happen if someone carried without a CWL in a carry permit state, and took the case to supreme court with the second amendment saying that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed?

Axxe55 05-04-2014 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJx (Post 1570211)
I wonder what would happen if someone carried without a CWL in a carry permit state, and took the case to supreme court with the second amendment saying that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed?

seriously? unless you have unlimited funds for some very good lawyers and the time to keep pushing it through the courts, i suspect you are going to be a casualty of the justice system and lose all your gun rights for breaking the law.

enjoy!

CJx 05-04-2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxe55 (Post 1570219)
seriously? unless you have unlimited funds for some very good lawyers and the time to keep pushing it through the courts, i suspect you are going to be a casualty of the justice system and lose all your gun rights for breaking the law.

enjoy!

It was just a hypothetical situation, it probably needs to happen though! Concealed carry permit requirements are completely unconstitutional.

Axxe55 05-04-2014 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJx (Post 1570224)
It was just a hypothetical situation, it probably needs to happen though! Concealed carry permit requirements are completely unconstitutional.

well you and Hipoint380 can test them out and let the rest of us know how it turns out.

as you grow older and mature some, you will find out what needs to be and what is or will be are two very different things in life.

CJx 05-04-2014 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxe55 (Post 1570229)
well you and Hipoint380 can test them out and let the rest of us know how it turns out.

as you grow older and mature some, you will find out what needs to be and what is or will be are two very different things in life.

Edit: I'll save this reply for a private message, as to not derail off topic.

Balota 05-04-2014 10:59 PM

I think concealed carry should be unrestricted from state to state in the same way drivers licenses are. Does anyone know how that has been implemented?

Axxe55 05-04-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balota (Post 1570241)
I think concealed carry should be unrestricted from state to state in the same way drivers licenses are. Does anyone know how that has been implemented?

i agree. but i don't want the federal government involved in any way.

Balota 05-05-2014 12:26 AM

I don't especially want the Federal government involved either. But somehow I doubt that the several States got together and agreed on drivers license reciprocity. I wish for the same level of reciprocity for firearms.

locutus 05-05-2014 05:24 PM

The American people will come together only when you threaten something that they really, really value. Like beer or basketball.

Eagle1803 05-05-2014 05:30 PM

LMAO, somehow I under estimated how many liberals are on a gun board.

I will have to read more before I make a self eval.:D

kfox75 05-05-2014 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alsaqr (Post 1570180)
Jump right there be a test case. For maximum effect i suggest you open carry in NJ, NY or MA.

If you're going to do it, do it right. OC in the middle of Times Square in NYC at 17:00 hours. Give me a heads up before you do, I want to make sure I have the popcorn popped before the show starts........ ;) (Not directed at you alsagr)

The problem with trying to set up LTC acceptance nationally is two fold. first off, the CC laws are covered under state's rights, and each state sets it's own standards. Some states (Such as NY) have set the bar so high that it is almost impossible to get a CCL, while others, (PA for instance) don't even require a class to apply for a LTC. The only way to get past this is with federal involvement, at least to set the standards for qualification for an LTC. Pretty much no one wants the feds to set this standard, especially with the current CIC in the White house.

The other problem is, given that it is a state's state's rights issue, states that are more restrictive will still refuse to allow out of staters to carry. In order to have reprocicity with all 50, the BATFE would have to be involved in implimenting the new system, and I can promise that NY, CA, IL, NJ,etc would fight it, kicking and screaming, all the way to the USSC because an order such as this would be in violation of both amendments 10 an 11. Not that that has ever stopped the feds before.

JimRau 05-05-2014 11:09 PM

What I would like to see is a nation wide 'Rosa Parks' second amendment movement!!! :cool: But trying to get people organized and committed is next to impossible!:(
Because the 10th Amendment prohibits the state and local governments from passing ANY laws which would 'infringe' (restrict or limit) our RTKABA'S it would be a worth while cause.:cool:

widowmaker 05-06-2014 05:47 PM

Ever hear the phrase " You can't fight City Hall"?
TPTB will never give up what power they already have. They just want more and more.
I firmly believe that law abiding citizens should have the right to carry firearms in all fifty states but "City Hall" doesn't agree with me .

Eagle1803 05-06-2014 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJx (Post 1570211)
I wonder what would happen if someone carried without a CWL in a carry permit state, and took the case to supreme court with the second amendment saying that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed?

:o What 2A rights, the government and the states have stomped our 2A Rights and infringed them to the point we are barely holding on to the 2A at all cost for some of us.


Concealed and carry permit My ass, the 2A is my concealed and carry permit period:mad: at least thats the way it is suppose to be, but in cast you didn't know it, It has been mandated and regulated to the point where the proud American Gun owner is part of the problem....in the librals eyes.... where in reality we are part of the solution.

widowmaker 05-07-2014 02:58 AM

I made this offer a few years ago. I will make it again.
Somebody organize a thousand .hundred thousand, million man march on the powers that be and I will be there with bells on.
I don't mean to sound racist but here goes and I am sorry if it offends anyone.
You can get tens of thousands of African-Americans to march on Washington , hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to march on Markets St. in San Francisco but you cant get 100 good old redneck gun owners to protest en mass at their capitol. Until we present a UNITED FRONT they will chip away at our rights until they are completely eroded until they are unrecognizable.
I do not mean this as an indictment of any ethnic section of society .
It's just we are so scattered in our defense of our rights we can not win this way.
If I am wrong please feel free to tell me and if the mods decide I have stepped over the line I hope the mods will take into account that I'm an old fart.

Pasquanel 05-07-2014 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoint380 (Post 1570041)
Unfortunate that people in a community have no back bones. I'm not one of them. When the S hits the fan snerio. I guess most of us will be alone while the others are scared S-less.

You have to very young! You have video game scenarios in your mind as to what you would do or not! In the real world its much more serious, its for keeps! It happens fast and there is no do-over!
Let me ask you have you ever been so scared you knew you were going to die and you had that metallic taste in your mouth? If not you may need to study this a bit further before you make such bold assumptions! You may think you're ready to meet your maker but I promise you when its time you will have second thoughts!

Axxe55 05-07-2014 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasquanel (Post 1571472)
You have to very young! You have video game scenarios in your mind as to what you would do or not! In the real world its much more serious, its for keeps! It happens fast and there is no do-over!
Let me ask you have you ever been so scared you knew you were going to die and you had that metallic taste in your mouth? If not you may need to study this a bit further before you make such bold assumptions! You may think you're ready to meet your maker but I promise you when its time you will have second thoughts!

i think many of us when we were much younger and were full of piss and vinegar and thought we were bulletproof!

as we grow older and start getting a taste of reality and responsiblity those visions of our mortality become more clear just as our responsiblity to take care of things like an adult and not a child.

i am not afraid to die, but i also see no need to be foolish and to rush it before God makes the decision for me to leave this place.

clr8ter 05-07-2014 10:31 AM

You can get tens of thousands of African-Americans to march on Washington , hundreds of thousands of
Quote:

illegal immigrants to march on Markets St. in San Francisco but you cant get 100 good old redneck gun owners to protest en mass at their capitol. Until we present a UNITED FRONT they will chip away at our rights until they are completely eroded until they are unrecognizable.
I do not mean this as an indictment of any ethnic section of society .
It's just we are so scattered in our defense of our rights we can not win this way.
If I am wrong please feel free to tell me and if the mods decide I have stepped over the line I hope the mods will take into account that I'm an old fart.
What's wrong with that? Why might it be considered racist? It's true....

widowmaker 05-07-2014 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clr8ter (Post 1571580)
You can get tens of thousands of African-Americans to march on Washington , hundreds of thousands of

What's wrong with that? Why might it be considered racist? It's true....



So many people are so thin skinned nowadays almost anything you say can be construed the wrong way.
But to get back on subject: We as Americans need to stand up and be counted.
Remember , we are citizens , not subjects.

hipoint380 05-08-2014 04:25 PM

Are you kidding me I've been carrying a gun at wirk for along time and I would like to while not at work. You are also taking to someone who's is a used to high risk areas.

Young no. Have had people try to kill me at work and while not at work yes

hipoint380 05-08-2014 04:29 PM

Being black legal
Being in the country illegally well legal

Law abiding gun owner that wants more carry options - not so much.

kfox75 05-08-2014 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widowmaker (Post 1571455)
I made this offer a few years ago. I will make it again.
Somebody organize a thousand .hundred thousand, million man march on the powers that be and I will be there with bells on.
I don't mean to sound racist but here goes and I am sorry if it offends anyone.
You can get tens of thousands of African-Americans to march on Washington , hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to march on Markets St. in San Francisco but you cant get 100 good old redneck gun owners to protest en mass at their capitol. Until we present a UNITED FRONT they will chip away at our rights until they are completely eroded until they are unrecognizable.
I do not mean this as an indictment of any ethnic section of society .
It's just we are so scattered in our defense of our rights we can not win this way.
If I am wrong please feel free to tell me and if the mods decide I have stepped over the line I hope the mods will take into account that I'm an old fart.

You are wrong. ;) Also, speaking the truth does not make you a racist in my eyes. If it does, than I guess I am one too.

Here in NY since the passing of the UNSAFE Act, we have gotten well over 1,000 "Good Ole Rednecks" to march on the state capitol for the gun rights of every resident of the state. More than once I might add.

The problem is not getting the people on board to stand up for their rights. The issue is keeping them on board after the first time the case against those who have stolen our rights, like a den of thieves in the middle of the night in the case of the crooks in Albany, when our collective morale drops as a result of said losses. Many will give up after the first judge declares that the state has the right to bend you over the barrel, so why are you whining? Many will bail, some will join the cause, but only a small number in most cases with stay the course. Yes, I admit I am bailing out, but a chance at a better life and a new start in a different state does not mean I am not going to support the 2A rights of those in the state I am leaving, or any other place where our rights are being stepped on.

If someone were to set up a X number of 2A supported March, I would be there as well. however, it would have to be set up by level headed, intelligent, law abiding folks for me to join in in the first place. An unarmed demonstration at the Mall in our nations capitol, count me in. Open carrying rifles, pistols, shotguns, etc. in the same without a permit for that area, I'm not touching that with a 10 foot cattle prod. What good is fighting for your rights, when the action used to fight for them is what will be the cause of you losing ALL of your freedoms after a felony conviction? Sure, you just won, and got the rights of Joe Schmoe Gunowner back, but your freedoms are still completely FUBAR.

I can't see that as a win.


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