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Old 07-10-2010, 12:06 AM   #21
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I understand that the law is the law. And that it must be followed. But I have to ask...who is the idiot that came up with this stuff. Why would the ATF care if someone wanted to put a rifle stock on a pistol? I mean, a gun is a gun. Am I the only one that thinks this is completely stupid?

And yes, I obey the law. All my guns are legal!
Rick, of course it is stupid! It's not about making sense, it's ONLY about CONTROL. In NJ I cannot have a rifle with a collapsible stock,a flash suppressor, bayonet lug etc... sense never really enters the equation, only how many ways can they control our lives. Well, thats my opinion anyway.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:06 AM   #22
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I understand that the law is the law. And that it must be followed. But I have to ask...who is the idiot that came up with this stuff. Why would the ATF care if someone wanted to put a rifle stock on a pistol? I mean, a gun is a gun. Am I the only one that thinks this is completely stupid?

And yes, I obey the law. All my guns are legal!
In my opinion, all of these restrictions are in some way intended to make gun ownership a more perilous proposition. The more ridiculous and illogical the restriction, the more likely it is to be transgressed, and the more likely citizens are to just give up on guns altogether. By the way, I prefer to say all my guns are Constitutional, rather than legal.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:33 AM   #23
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I understand why people may not want us to have a rifle with a bayonet. I understand why people want to restrict magazine capacity. It is simply fear. I do not agree with any of it. But I understand it. Not to be allowed to put a rifle stock on a pistol just makes no sense to me.

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Old 07-10-2010, 02:44 PM   #24
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Why? The problem here is you do not unerstand the criminal mind. The criminal mind finds loopholes to exploit.

Sawed off shotguns and rifles were a problem because of their power level and concealability. A criminal will take the angle that it is not a sawed off shot gun, it is a long barrel handgun. The government then must redo the law to remove the loopholes. They try to think of every conceivable angle and loophole so the wiley criminal cannot skate, but they end up making laws that are so broad and all encompassing they seem Draconian.

Now the 89 assault weapon ban was just plain Draconian and stupid. It was not written to close up loopholes, it was written by Douche Bags that cannot stand for the common man to have any fun guns at all.

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Old 07-10-2010, 04:22 PM   #25
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Why? The problem here is you do not unerstand the criminal mind. The criminal mind finds loopholes to exploit.

Sawed off shotguns and rifles were a problem because of their power level and concealability. A criminal will take the angle that it is not a sawed off shot gun, it is a long barrel handgun. The government then must redo the law to remove the loopholes. They try to think of every conceivable angle and loophole so the wiley criminal cannot skate, but they end up making laws that are so broad and all encompassing they seem Draconian.

Now the 89 assault weapon ban was just plain Draconian and stupid. It was not written to close up loopholes, it was written by Douche Bags that cannot stand for the common man to have any fun guns at all.
I understand that some(very few I would think) criminals might want to try to lessen the charges brought IF caught, however, I think that the vast majority of those who break the laws dont care either way if you call it a sawed off shotgun or a LB handgun. These kinds of laws just give the law abiding citizen that much more conditioning to accept the NEXT ridiculous law that gets passed.
I get that some of these laws are there to be able to bring a plethra of charges against those who commit crimes with firearms, perhaps the laws should stipulate that any CRIME committed with this type of weapon etc, triples the mandatory punishment, leaving those who DO obey the laws thier "uninfringed" rights.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:40 PM   #26
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I'm not sure if understanding the criminal mind is as important as understanding the legislative mind. So they try to combat gun crime by decreasing the concealability of the gun. But, when regulating knives, they think the other way, and determine a blade too large is unacceptable. Mobsters have shown a penchant for killing with icepicks occasionally, but I've not noticed any push to either make icepicks not longer than 1/2" so as not to penetrate vital areas, or to make them a minimum of 24" to make them difficult to conceal. The truth is, there is an ongoing war against the 2nd Amendment, and it is the one on which the rest depend for survival. The sad thing is, most of those who blindly campaign against the 2nd, will champion the 1st, 4th, 5th, and many of the others. But if they ever succeed at circumventing the 2nd, they will not have anyone to protect the rest.

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Old 07-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #27
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By "criminal mindset" I also mean "criminal defense attorney mindset" As about 99% of the defense attorneys are actually criminals with degrees. They aid and abet the criminals.

Remember, the legislators do no actually write the laws. They are written by clerks, interns and staff or submitted by people or groups that wish to get a law passed. Federal firearms legislation is routed through the BATFE legal department and the US Attorney's office. They try these cases and have experience in loop holes. The Bull SH!T that these defense attorneys come up with never ceases to amaze me. Like John Gotti's lawyer. "Oh, my client is a good family man" BULLSH!T!!!! Your client is a murdering, bottom feeding, scum bag and so are you!

Trying to make sense of it all will only give you a migrane. Why are shot guns bad, but long knives are bad? Come on. Use your brain. A 12" blade is far deadlier than a 2" blade, but a 2" barrel is just a deadly as a 12" barrel. Trying to compare knife legislation to gun legistaltion is stupid.

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Old 07-11-2010, 02:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
By "criminal mindset" I also mean "criminal defense attorney mindset" As about 99% of the defense attorneys are actually criminals with degrees. They aid and abet the criminals.

Remember, the legislators do no actually write the laws. They are written by clerks, interns and staff or submitted by people or groups that wish to get a law passed. Federal firearms legislation is routed through the BATFE legal department and the US Attorney's office. They try these cases and have experience in loop holes. The Bull SH!T that these defense attorneys come up with never ceases to amaze me. Like John Gotti's lawyer. "Oh, my client is a good family man" BULLSH!T!!!! Your client is a murdering, bottom feeding, scum bag and so are you!

Trying to make sense of it all will only give you a migrane. Why are shot guns bad, but long knives are bad? Come on. Use your brain. A 12" blade is far deadlier than a 2" blade, but a 2" barrel is just a deadly as a 12" barrel. Trying to compare knife legislation to gun legistaltion is stupid.
robocop, you are welcome to your opinion, but you are a poor judge of mine. I didn't compare knife and gun legislation, I compared the logic of the concealment argument made by the legislators. If an easily concealed gun (shortened shotgun) is more dangerous than a more obvious one, the same logic should apply to other weapons as well. A concealed weapon never harmed anyone until it is used in a harmful way.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:25 PM   #29
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Robo is right. Be absolutely certain of the laws before making any purchases. I just went through a similar situation with an AR build.

Every state's laws are different as well. My state is pretty lenient, but the states you listed are not.

These links can help you out:

Gun laws in the United States (by state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prohibited Firearms > Gun Laws statistics - states compared - StateMaster

NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman

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Old 07-11-2010, 10:08 PM   #30
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robocop, you are welcome to your opinion, but you are a poor judge of mine. I didn't compare knife and gun legislation, I compared the logic of the concealment argument made by the legislators. If an easily concealed gun (shortened shotgun) is more dangerous than a more obvious one, the same logic should apply to other weapons as well. A concealed weapon never harmed anyone until it is used in a harmful way.
I was going to going to engage in a logical diatribe, BUT...I don't believe anyone can carry on a logical diatribe under these circumstances.

I did not "judge" your opinion or mindset. Trying to attach logic to the legislative process is very naive indeed.
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