Bruce Boyer's open carry report for Thousand Oaks street fair; CA 10-16-2011 - Page 4
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:25 AM   #31
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Good luck with this one Pal. Someone will get hammered following your advice.

But hey...what do I know about law enforcement...I only did it for 23 years.
I think bruce was talking about civil disobedience. It's something that one cannot participate in without the reasonable expectation of bumping into the law.

Those of you suggesting that because cali residents allowed their rights to be walked all over, bruce should sit down and give up, shame on you.

Now if you want to live a quiet life, sure get your CCW and stick that mother in your pocket.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:22 PM   #32
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I think bruce was talking about civil disobedience. It's something that one cannot participate in without the reasonable expectation of bumping into the law.

Those of you suggesting that because cali residents allowed their rights to be walked all over, bruce should sit down and give up, shame on you.

Now if you want to live a quiet life, sure get your CCW and stick that mother in your pocket.
Civil Disobedience is one thing....getting in the face of cops just trying to do their job is another. It's not a situation where anything can reasonably be expected to be gained. Cops don't MAKE the law. But we are tasked with enforcing the law.

The notion put forth by some on this and other forums that cops get out of bed every day to step on the rights of the american people is ridiculous, and frankly, personally insulting to me. The anti-cop rhetoric keeps me away from most other forums with the exception of THR.

The place to put efforts into getting things changed is not in the laps of police officers. The place to put those efforts is the desks of the politicians. Make calls, write letters, organize groups that way. It takes ONE politician in your corner to effect a LOT of change. Russell Pearce here in AZ got on the ball with help from the people and got constitutional carry through for us. It would take ONE politician in Commifornia, won over to the side of regular folks, with help FROM those folks to get the law there changed too.

Find a MORMON in the state legislature in California...get that person on your side. LDS people have a strong tradition of preparedness and strong 2A values and views. There would be a willing ally in getting SHALL ISSUE ccw.

From a tactical (I HATE that word) standpoint, open carry is stupid. If you have the choice...CONCEAL IT. If you have NO choice, then do what you gotta do. But to carry an unloaded gun to make a point is only going to make the WRONG point and get you dead.

I could go into thousands of words about "helping out cops" defending the community...ugh...I don't have the energy for that one right now.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:15 PM   #33
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I didn't read it as him being in the face of the cops. He ignored the rent-a-cop because he didn't have any right to tell him to leave. It's a public event put together by the city, therefore the area remains public land. If the rule was no guns, then he would have had to surrender it at the gate. He was 100% cooperative with the police. I don't think the police were too flustered that he didn't give them his DOB.

The way I see it, the whole thing was started by the rent-a-cop. I'm not exactly familiar with cali law, but if you're allowed to carry a long arm in public, I don't see how it would be any different. Frankly, I don't see how you can carry a pistol and not be allowed to carry a long arm.

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Everyone in casuals and a gun is a bad guy? What about undercovers? Come on.

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Old 11-04-2011, 08:42 PM   #34
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I didn't read it as him being in the face of the cops. He ignored the rent-a-cop because he didn't have any right to tell him to leave. It's a public event put together by the city, therefore the area remains public land. If the rule was no guns, then he would have had to surrender it at the gate. He was 100% cooperative with the police. I don't think the police were too flustered that he didn't give them his DOB.

The way I see it, the whole thing was started by the rent-a-cop. I'm not exactly familiar with cali law, but if you're allowed to carry a long arm in public, I don't see how it would be any different. Frankly, I don't see how you can carry a pistol and not be allowed to carry a long arm.

@ArizonaLawman
Everyone in casuals and a gun is a bad guy? What about undercovers? Come on.
If you will read and ingest what I typed....

Believe me when I tell you that in the heat of an exchange of gunfire...if you pull your gun, and aren't wearing a uniform and a badge, or are clearly identified as an officer...YOU are assumed to be a bag guy and WILL be dealt with accordingly. Again...DEAD OF STUPID.

Really? What are you going to do...yell? "Armed citizen! I'm here to help!" "Um...but let me fumble around here for a few seconds and try to load my empty gun!" "OUCH...that hurt!"

Or.....carry one of those stupid CONEALED WEAPONS PERMIT badges and flash that?

Trust me when I tell you...SOMEONE is going to ventilate that buffoon.

ALL my years in LE I only remember one instance where an armed citizen actually came to the aid of, and actually made a difference during a critical incident. It happened in Phoenix and to the best of my recollection, in about 1995 or 1996. A local gang initiation rite was to shoot up a cop. An officer rolled into a parking lot and the gang opened fire from a vehicle. The security guard on an adjacent property opened fire on the gang bagers with his pistol. They fled to be arrested later. Basically, the guard fired into the subject vehicle from ambush (smart) and did NOT run to the scene making himself a target of the bangers or the officer who was under fire.

Now, I am sure there are other incidents of which I am not aware, and I won't debate their existence. Even off-duty officers rendering aid to a brother officer CLEARLY identify themselves to the officer involved in a critical incident. I knew just about every officer I was likely to encounter during a tour of duty. If not their name, at least their face, or someone they worked with, and we damned sure know HOW to identify ourselves to one another.

We know WHAT to say to one another and how to say it to have the best chance of NOT getting shot, and you know what? SOMETIMES even off duty officers get shot by other officers during a critical incident.

How much better is the buffoon interposing himself into a critical incident going to fare? Believe me, your chances of getting shot grow exponentially when you try to be Joe Hero.

Take the sort-of related scenario where an officer is getting holy crap beat out of him by a car full of thugs on the side of the road and Joe Truck Driver stops, gets out his tire tool and lays into the subjects. At that point...yeah..."Hey buddy can you lend a hand?" That is a remote situation that isn't what we're talking about here...but SOMEONE would mention it as an example. Much like the female officer who got her face smashed by the ex-con while his little girl watched and was run off by a citizen. It wasn't a "shots fired in progress". Personally...I would have stopped my truck, and blew the SOB into hell...but that's just me.

The "defending your community" scenario holds zero water.

I would suspect that the security guard in the original post HAD every right and authority to tell him to leave. If the guard was representing the contracted company to patrol the event, on public property or not, as it was a sponsored event. Much the same as a state or county fair that contracts with Company X to provide security...those guards DO have the authority to eject someone from the premises.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:03 PM   #35
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I think bruce was talking about civil disobedience. It's something that one cannot participate in without the reasonable expectation of bumping into the law.

Those of you suggesting that because cali residents allowed their rights to be walked all over, bruce should sit down and give up, shame on you.


Now if you want to live a quiet life, sure get your CCW and stick that mother in your pocket.
NEVER have, or would, i suggest one sit down and shut up in the matter of ones rights...what i have suggested is there are better more worthy ways of going about it.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:03 PM   #36
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Sure, it's a risk. But I think it's much much smaller than you're making it out to be. I've never heard of a cop shooting an armed civilian. For one, 99% of the time, the police aren't on the scene when something happens...

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NEVER have, or would, i suggest one sit down and shut up in the matter of ones rights...what i have suggested is there are better more worthy ways of going about it.
Sure, I'm not saying that the fact that he carries unloaded is of no small scrutiny, but principles do matter...
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:56 PM   #37
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all share 2nd Amendment interests, and I we should be glad that we do. To try to tell people how to take advantage of their rights becomes impinging. We should be glad that people are willing to open carry at all, especially considering how controversial gun issues have been these past years.

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Old 11-04-2011, 11:55 PM   #38
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NEVER have, or would, i suggest one sit down and shut up in the matter of ones rights...what i have suggested is there are better more worthy ways of going about it.
Truer words are rarely spoken, +1fmj...I can't possibly say anything any better than AZL, he's just plain right. We have to keep in mind that as gun owners, like it or not, we are a minority in this country (give or take) and as people who carry every day, we are an even smaller subset of that minority. The OP's actions, as well meaning as they may have been, are simply, for lack of a better word, stupid and inflammatory which is why I object to his posts so vigorously...among other reasons.

Sad as it is, there are MILLIONS of people who panic at the sight of a gun w/o a badge or uniform. Jamming our beliefs down their throat is NOT the way to initiate change or educate, but will only confirm their misguided beliefs that we are "a bunch of gun nuts" and waste LE's valuable time.

It's a damn shame that most of these stories come out of CA. I know there are people there who share the same views as us, but for some reason, Feinnstein and Boxer have spent a collective 70 YEARS in office as elected officals and "Moonbeam" as he's known, is back yet again, what does that say? It tells me that people who share our 2A views are an even bigger minority in CA and change is a long, uphill, most likely unwinnable battle, but then again, so was the Revolutionary War
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