Bruce Boyer's open carry report for Thousand Oaks street fair; CA 10-16-2011 - Page 3
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Bruce Boyer's open carry report for Thousand Oaks street fair; CA 10-16-2011


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Old 11-03-2011, 07:37 PM   #21
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Default Either I failed to evoke much of a response or?

Perhaps this thread has few readers. Any other responses?
Perhapsyoucould splain it to me, what is flaming inthis context? Do not think that because my name is Bruce I am homosexual? I am not, but I get to hear the jokes, so if that is the context of 'flaming', it does not come across as humurous.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:36 PM   #22
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Perhaps this thread has few readers. Any other responses?
This thread has had 413 views, as of the time I'm writing this. That makes it currently the 4th most-read thread within this forum that's had activity within the last day. If you're not getting responses, it's not because nobody's reading.

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Do not think that because my name is Bruce I am homosexual?
Um... what???

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Old 11-03-2011, 10:55 PM   #23
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http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f2/announcement-rules-regulations.html

#5, read it, learn it, live it. Apparently the SoCal smog and San Fernando Valley porn stank has depleted your abilty to recognize common sense, even as it slaps you in the face. Word of advice...It's better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Advice #2-That big rectangle shaped key at the bottom of your keyboard is called the space bar, try it out for a change.

You're just pizzed off because AZL said it like it is and you don't want to hear it. If you have nothing to contribute to the site, take a walk, nobody will miss you.

My last bit of "nice" to you...defensivecarry.com has a SPECIAL SUB FORUM JUST FOR YOUR FAVORITE TOPIC!!! It's called "Open carry issues and debate", go post your mindless drivel there.

Have a wonderful evening

Your friend; Vin
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:09 PM   #24
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Bruce- the term "Flaming" as used in a forum context has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

From WikiPedia:

Flaming (Internet)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Flaming, also known as bashing, is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of an Internet forum, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), Usenet, by e-mail, game servers such as Xbox Live or Playstation Network, and on video-sharing websites. It is frequently the result of the discussion of heated real-world issues such as politics, religion, and philosophy, or of issues that polarise subpopulations, but can also be provoked by seemingly trivial differences.

Deliberate flaming, as opposed to flaming as a result of emotional discussions, is carried out by individuals known as flamers, who are specifically motivated to incite flaming. These users specialize in flaming and target specific aspects of a controversial conversation, and are usually more subtle than their counterparts. Their counterparts are known as trolls who are less "professional" and write obvious and blunt remarks to incite a flame war, as opposed to the more subtle, yet precise flamers.[1] Some websites even cater for flamers and trolls, by allowing them a free environment, such as Flame-Wars forum.[2]
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:21 PM   #25
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Now, not that you asked me for it, but I will offer my thoughts to you-

Whether it is your intention or not- you give the impression of being rude, pushy, arrogant and ill mannered. I would not choose to spend time willingly hanging out with a person like that.

I spend a lot of time training people. One lesson I learned long ago- get my audience pissed at me, or put them to sleep- and my message just lost the ability to be heard by others.

I will leave you with a quote from Robert Heinlein's Notebooks of Lazarus Long-

Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty,” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:22 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBoyer View Post
The law enforcement got to meet a gun owner who was not a crip/Blood domestic Violance/Robber. A pleasant friendly, good citizen, their neighbor. Someone who knew the law far better than they did yet was not condescending, who was helpful and had the shared goal of making our community safer. Someone who would be defendingtheir wives and daughters by the fact that he openly carries and a citizen who would step up to defend his community, includingtheir wives/daughters.

Do you all agree or disagree with that pretext?
I disagree that you would be in any way capable of defending ANYTHING with an openly carried UNLOADED pistol.

I would also disagree that whatever officer you happened to come in contact with was impressed by your display. All I, or any other cop would come away from that kind of interchange would be irritation at having to waste time and resources on your grandstanding, chest puffing, and so-called "defending your community". I would see a VICTIM. I am not trying to be a jerk...please understand that is NOT my intention, but I am just telling you as it is from a cop's perspective. What YOU may interpret as genuine interest and empathy for your cause of the moment is our way of getting the conversation over with as soon as possible, so we don't have to listen to any more. Nodding of the head, non-commital agreements, etc...etc...etc..."public relations face".

In a state like Arizona where open and concealed carry is legal...it's a different story. Rarely is an eye even batted when someone is carrying openly. But you can damned betcha the gun being carried is loaded. If it isn't...it's a paperweight...and useless as hen**** on a pump handle.

Now...as to "defending your community"...Please don't. You're not armed with the training or authority under the law to "defend your community" in California, where as I understand it, you are ONLY allowed to act in defense of yourself and your immediate family. A buffoon with a pistol and a hero complex "jumping into the fray" is more than likely to be shot by officers, or get officers shot while trying to keep the buffoon from getting shot, than to make any worthy contribution to a fracas. That's just a simple fact of life, and said buffoon JUST DIED OF STUPID.

Believe me when I tell you that in the heat of an exchange of gunfire...if you pull your gun, and aren't wearing a uniform and a badge, or are clearly identified as an officer...YOU are assumed to be a bag guy and WILL be dealt with accordingly. Again...DEAD OF STUPID.

You aren't going to magically change the outlook on OC in Commiefornia by pissing in the pocket of everyone you see and challenging the cops who don't MAKE the law. You WILL succeed in having your name in the PD database under CONTACTS with every contact you have with an officer in an official capacity (why do you think we ALWAYS get name, address, phone, and write them down in our notebooks?). They WILL be entered into the MDT when the contact is over. The next time an officer has to deal with you....HE will know already what your quirk is.

I don't doubt you intentions are good....just misguided.

I also believe that MOST guys who open carry around town especially when they have the ability to carry concealed, are really just trying to show off and thump their chest. I simply don't see OC as a sound practice when you have the ability to carry concealed.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:26 AM   #27
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OC carry is not going away on 1-1-2012. But you thougth it was, how is that? Well if you read the short synopsis of AB 144 that stated that persons may not OC, you would have thought that. If you read the bill you will understand it does not make OC a crime. It makes open carry by non-exempt people, in many places or circumstances a crime.
The list of exemptions is not only vast but it fails to establish a threshhold of Probable Cause to determine if someone is in violation.

For example, Officer Dave observes a guy OC at a Street Fair. That individual who is openly (that is key 'openly', not trying to conceal what he is doing, criminals make an attempt to conceal, when people do things in an open manner it is because they are not breaking law, or at least they do not think so, that's intent, a requirement) carrying a firearm. So upon what basis is the individual breaking the law? The only option is to ask him, and if he states that he is not someone who is exempt or possibly doing something that is not within the list of exemptions which are not based opon where, but upon why.

If the person chooses not to identify himself as someone who is not an exempt person, their is no probable cause. Should the officer arrest, it's a violation of his rights, even if he is not exempt. If he is exempt, it's a bigger violation of his rights. The person can be exempt if the person is of the following, an attorney, a bill collector, a person employed in collecting financial information, a security guard (in uniform is not required) and of coures an active or retired Law Enf.
Read the bill. I have with one attorney, and will with several others! The exemptions are many and impossible to determine (unless the person goes "well officer I am not a person who is exempt or someone who is doing something that would not qualify as an exemption, this is called admitting guilt).

So is that guy an attorney, a bill collector, a guy with a security guard card, or a retired cop from New Mexico?? The only way to know is to ask, if the person chooses to just smile and ignore the question, no PC! No PC, no arrest. If they do arrest, fine file charges. Based on what evidence? As they have violated our 14th Amendemnt, some people are criminals if they OC while othes are not. Unless one admits they a are not an exempt person, the cannot file any charges.Lets say they file charges. They have to prove the officer had probable cause to believe the 'suspect' was not exempt "How do you know he was not a bill collector, or an attorney, or a cop or a security guard not in uniform?? Cannot convict as there is no proof that suspect/accused was not at the time a security guard/attorney etc etc. One is not required to prove their innoncence, and they cannot prove you are not a bill collector, attorney etc. Motion to dismiss, hello Fed Civil Rights lawsuit.
Wiull there be lots of folks OC who are retired cops, attorneys etc, who will just 'smile'. You bet! The task is to get as many as possible and see that everyone else knows his 5th Amendment rights as well as his or her 2nd!

How big a Civil rights lawsuit is it when LASD or SDSD arrests a bunch of attorneys. retired cops and sec guys, then file charges, to hae them dismissed? ENOURMOUS!This is called effective resistance that wins! Winning is the key, not hiding. This is plan B. There is plan A and C. The plans will all be up on the SonsofLibertyLAdotcom website soon.

In a State of 30 million people, fifty stalwart men and women can defeat them and restore our liberty. It's a lot easier with five hundred, with five thousand it's a slam dunk. But it must start with one. One we have. Do we have two?
Good luck with this one Pal. Someone will get hammered following your advice.

But hey...what do I know about law enforcement...I only did it for 23 years.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:28 AM   #28
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This thread has had 413 views, as of the time I'm writing this. That makes it currently the 4th most-read thread within this forum that's had activity within the last day. If you're not getting responses, it's not because nobody's reading.

Um... what???
I think the whole "flaming" thing was misunderstood contextually to mean "flaming homosexual".

No harm, no foul.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
I disagree that you would be in any way capable of defending ANYTHING with an openly carried UNLOADED pistol.

I would also disagree that whatever officer you happened to come in contact with was impressed by your display. All I, or any other cop would come away from that kind of interchange would be irritation at having to waste time and resources on your grandstanding, chest puffing, and so-called "defending your community". I would see a VICTIM. I am not trying to be a jerk...please understand that is NOT my intention, but I am just telling you as it is from a cop's perspective. What YOU may interpret as genuine interest and empathy for your cause of the moment is our way of getting the conversation over with as soon as possible, so we don't have to listen to any more. Nodding of the head, non-commital agreements, etc...etc...etc..."public relations face".

In a state like Arizona where open and concealed carry is legal...it's a different story. Rarely is an eye even batted when someone is carrying openly. But you can damned betcha the gun being carried is loaded. If it isn't...it's a paperweight...and useless as hen**** on a pump handle.

Now...as to "defending your community"...Please don't. You're not armed with the training or authority under the law to "defend your community" in California, where as I understand it, you are ONLY allowed to act in defense of yourself and your immediate family. A buffoon with a pistol and a hero complex "jumping into the fray" is more than likely to be shot by officers, or get officers shot while trying to keep the buffoon from getting shot, than to make any worthy contribution to a fracas. That's just a simple fact of life, and said buffoon JUST DIED OF STUPID.

Believe me when I tell you that in the heat of an exchange of gunfire...if you pull your gun, and aren't wearing a uniform and a badge, or are clearly identified as an officer...YOU are assumed to be a bag guy and WILL be dealt with accordingly. Again...DEAD OF STUPID.

You aren't going to magically change the outlook on OC in Commiefornia by pissing in the pocket of everyone you see and challenging the cops who don't MAKE the law. You WILL succeed in having your name in the PD database under CONTACTS with every contact you have with an officer in an official capacity (why do you think we ALWAYS get name, address, phone, and write them down in our notebooks?). They WILL be entered into the MDT when the contact is over. The next time an officer has to deal with you....HE will know already what your quirk is.

I don't doubt you intentions are good....just misguided.

I also believe that MOST guys who open carry around town especially when they have the ability to carry concealed, are really just trying to show off and thump their chest. I simply don't see OC as a sound practice when you have the ability to carry concealed.
As i like to say, "a victim LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO HAPPEN."

Good sir, Open carry is silly at best, open carry of an UNLOADED weapon is pure foolishness....i would even hazard to classify it as landing somewhere between STUPID and AZZININE.

I happen to live in a free state, where open carry and concealed carry is allowed. You can bet your azz i carry CONCEALED EVERYWHERE I go. Also, should the conversation take that turn and folks ask to see my CONCEALED weapon the answer is an immediate and emphatic NO!
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:49 AM   #30
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As i like to say, "a victim LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO HAPPEN."

Good sir, Open carry is silly at best, open carry of an UNLOADED weapon is pure foolishness....i would even hazard to classify it as landing somewhere between STUPID and AZZININE.

I happen to live in a free state, where open carry and concealed carry is allowed. You can bet your azz i carry CONCEALED EVERYWHERE I go. Also, should the conversation take that turn and folks ask to see my CONCEALED weapon the answer is an immediate and emphatic NO!
Stupid? No. I think it's moved two counties over to legally retarded. Stupid is in the better county.
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