A British Attitude to Guns and Self Defence. - Page 6
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Really? You are actually that cynical? There is no shortage of criminals in the US. Plant a REALLY bad one and it will not effect the budget one red cent. It may, however save a few honest lives down the road. Your sarcasm is not in good taste.
My "sarcasm" is bred of years of experience.

Criminals crap all over you, then LE sweeps in,

chants the mantra "We'd love to help, but there's

nothing we can do.
Now, if you take the law into

your own hands, we will punish you."



You have my apologies, if my personal

experience and observation that LEOs

are " Janitors with Glocks " doesn't fit your

acceptability paradigm.

What is one left to think, when we, as LACs, are hog-tied by

LE, who demand 7 types of proof, and offer no redress, while

the criminal skips away Scot-free?

What are we to think when LEOs approve of, and support

obviously failed gun control in this eroding society?

LEOs all think it's a big joke, as they drive off sipping coffee

in their air-conditioned cruiser.

Well, sir, pardon me, for not wanting to pay the piper, yet

again, the next time some jerk-wad decides my home or family is ripe pickings,

because society has either made him feel entitled, bulletproof, unprosecutable.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:42 PM   #52
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Why blame the cop who is handcuffed by the politician??

How about blaming the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES of the people, some of whom you helped elect???

After 20+ years of putting my life on the line everyday as one of those "useless, stupid, crooked cops" you seem to enjoy denigrating, I get a little pissed off at people like you, who whine but do nothing!

Why don't you join (or organize) neighborhood watch, or apply for your local police department's reserve unit? You just might get a little different perspective the first time you get shot at. Then research the candidates for city council, county commissioner, legislature, and vote for the honest ones, instead of the ones your labor union told you to vote for.


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Old 07-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Really? You are actually that cynical? There is no shortage of criminals in the US. Plant a REALLY bad one and it will not effect the budget one red cent. It may, however save a few honest lives down the road. Your sarcasm is not in good taste.
T Wolf and Robo both have good points and the last thing anyone wants is a pissing contest between LEO's and armed citizens...

I know, serve RSO duty with, and shoot with many of our local LEO's. On a personal level I find them to be admirable and honest men who do a tough job and I appreciate there efforts.

However...we have entered a strange new frontier with the "militarization" of our police forces and eroding civil liberties excused by bogus wars on Drugs and Terrorism.

These realities give the armed citizen, particularly us Vet's, pause as to whether or not we can actually trust LEO's when there acting in official capacity.

^^THIS^^ lack of trust is inherently dangerous, particularly when combined with no knock warrants ending in the death of innocent home owners who came to the door at 2 am with a pistol. "Happened to a neighbor of mine!"

While I respect and appreciate LEO efforts, I also stand witness to gross overreaches of power and Cops, like it or not, are the enforcers of that power.

It is my greatest wish to see our nations leaders held accountable cor there actions, too see the illigitamate powers stolen and excused by illegal wars returned, and to see our nations LEO's begin a move back toward the Peace Officers they used to be.

In the mean time I make no bones about the fact that I judge the man separate from his chosen profession.

Tack
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:35 PM   #54
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Tack, just bear in mind that the cops don't write the laws they are sworn to enforce, they don't issue the court orders, no-knock waerrants they are ordered to serve, and most of them don't like this krap any better than you do.

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Old 07-30-2012, 07:46 PM   #55
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If it is not too late for me to get my dog in on this hunt, I would like to post a few words.

1) In the State of Florida, we have the Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground Law. In laymans terms, I have the right to defend myself, my family, and my property and not to flee from an attacker. Fortunately for me, I live in an area that so far, does not have a serious crime problem. I can only say that if the situation were to arise, I pray that I would make the right decision.

2) Having said that, should the local "Bad Guy" decide to break into my home, I will, and I am quoting a LEO here, "Shoot until the aggression stops". If the local "Bad Guy" is fortunate enough to escape, I would let him go and give my report to the LEO on the scene. If he is running away, he is no longer a threat.

3) If the local "Bad Guy" was to turn and "re-engage" me, I would return fire "IF" there was no one in the area behind him that could get hurt.

4) In response to the original post, if a nut job as described in the original post were to do what was said, I would report it to the local LEO's and up my defensive posture until I was assured that the nut job was gone or captured. Just because he is hollering and acting like a fool does not give me the right to take him out.

5) In response to a post about different laws in other states, whenever I travel between states or as in the case of when I moved here, I contacted the local Law Enforcement agentcy in the area that I am going to and find out what the local laws are. That way I do not get myself in a legal bind. It also helps to have a carry permit and to know what states recognize it.

6) To the individual from New Port Richey Florida, I feel for you. Based on your printed words about the LEOs in your area, you must have some really lousy ones. Those found here in NW Florida are top notch for the most part.

To sum this all up; Know the laws in your area, have faith in your local LEOs, and pray that you do the right thing should you ever have to draw down on someone. To paraphrase and earlier post, you cannot get the bullet back once it leaves weapon.

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Old 07-30-2012, 07:58 PM   #56
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Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.

I hear the ground in some areas of the U.K. is quite rocky; you might need a pick to go with your shovel.



Laugh if you want and believe i am joking, but if a person feels threatened and has to defend themselves with deadly force and THEN feels so in danger of wrongful prosecution/persecution by the courts that they flee or conceal evidence, i consider them FULLY justified in fleeing prosecution or concealing that evidence.

No offense to those who choose to live under such rule, but it isn't particularly comforting to know how badly wrong a nation's laws can go in the area of the right to self defense. You have my sympathies.

Personally, i wonder if part of the difference in attitudes towards oppressive "gun control" (law-abiding citizen control) has anything to do with the fact that many of our U.S. ancestors moved here to escape the bootheel of such oppressive rule. Maybe it is genetically passed down that we are unsuitable for serious serfdom. Most of my ancestors are of Irish, Scottish, and English descent (Sullivans, Allens, Hendersons, Thompsons).

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Old 07-30-2012, 08:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.

I hear the ground in some areas of the U.K. is quite rocky; you might need a pick to go with your shovel.

Laugh if you want and believe i am joking, but if a person feels threatened and has to defend themselves with deadly force and THEN feels so in danger of wrongful prosecution/persecution by the courts that they flee or conceal evidence, i consider them FULLY justified in fleeing prosecution or concealing that evidence.

No offense to those who choose to live under such rule, but it isn't particularly comforting to know how badly wrong a nation's laws can go in the area of the right to self defense. You have my sympathies.

Personally, i wonder if part of the difference in attitudes towards oppressive "gun control" (law-abiding citizen control) has anything to do with the fact that many of our U.S. ancestors moved here to escape the bootheel of such oppressive rule. Maybe it is genetically passed down that we are unsuitable for serious serfdom. Most of my ancestors are of Irish, Scottish, and English descent (Sullivans, Allens, Hendersons, Thompsons).
Ahmen to that!

You cannot legislate out of existance the instinctual act of self.defence anymore than you can legislate out of existence my need for oxygen to survive...
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by UKShootist View Post
As you are a UK resident, I should explain the reason why I said shotgun rather than firearm. A shotgun held on a shotgun certificate does not hold conditions as to it's use, whereas a firearm certificate does, for S.1 firearms.

My interest in writing my post is the whys and wherefors of the police removing all firearms from the housholder's home in such circumstances. The householder would be breaking no law. He would be acting lawfully, proportionally, sensibly, and rationally. The police would have no justification in law or practicality for removing all firearms from the home, and yet I am as sure as God made apples that they would do so.

The question is, then, why?
The gun laws have a few differences here than the rest of the UK. You do have conditions on a shotgun certificate in N Ireland Hand guns are S.1 with conditions.
Their have being instances here where a legally held shotgun was used in self defence. Obviously the shotgun was removed while a investigation was carried out but returned when it was ruled as self defence.

Do you know of any cases in the UK that the certificate was revoked in similar circumstances. ?
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:30 PM   #59
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Ahmen to that!

You cannot legislate out of existance the instinctual act of self.defence anymore than you can legislate out of existence my need for oxygen to survive...


Their is very little difference here in the UK when it comes to self defence than America. -
(You are allowed to us lethal force in the UK if you think you or your family's lives are in danger. This fact does not seem to be getting trough to some on the forum.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:11 PM   #60
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I lived there 5 years. I was left with the impression that SD was not a right in the UK. You must try to retreat and only use enough force to repel the attack, bla bla bla. "Stand your ground" it ain't.
As a retired police officer, you should be well aware of this mindset.
All I can say is that you might wish to have a good lawyer (Barrister?) on speed dial. Every SD case that involved a firearm seemed to result in Her Majesty's prosecutors trying to make an example of the person who wouldn't be a victim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
They hosed that guy bad. The scumbag he shot was made out to be a friggen martyr. Turn on local news and that kids smirking mug was all over the news. It was a circus. In UT Mr. Martin would have got a handshake from the police.

NO! No one needs to know you have a shotgun ready for his return.
Also, you might wish to request that this thread be deleted. If it comes to pass, this thread might constitute premeditation in the eyes of said prosecutors. I used to read the magistrate's reports in the paper so...I don't wish to sound overly negative, but I hold the UK justice system in pretty low regard. Beat up a man, get a fine. Kick that man's dog and do hard time. Hell, outright murder is only good for 7 years, apparently. Is car theft (w/ the obligatory burning) still considered minor teen mischief?

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Liberals are constantly telling us about the poor and oppressed in this country. With that in mind, why do they feel the need to keep importing poor people from other countries?

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