A British Attitude to Guns and Self Defence. - Page 4
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:55 PM   #31
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You don't know that! How do you know the perp is not rounding the corner to get to a trunk full of weapons? What's to say the perp is not coming back in 5 minuts with 2, 3, 4 or more perps? A person has the right to defend themselves until they no longer feel threatened

Commiting a crime is dangerous work ..... criminals need to learn this ..... even if it means learning it with their life
Dog we don't know. but when LEO's show up at the scene and the BG is full of holes in the back, i think it could be very bad for the person doing the shooting. and i agree in the fact of right to defend until no longer threatened, but the way i see it, is there could be a very fine line there between self defence and murder if a person isn't careful.

and if i sat on a jury, and it was testified that the BG was full of holes in the back, unless there was a very, very good reason, i would probably find that person guilty. that's just my opinion and what i feel is right.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:03 PM   #32
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In the recent Internet cafe incident here in Florida, the perps started to run after the first shot from an armed customer,he fired several more shots as they fell all over themselves trying to get away. There were at least two hits. The armed customer was not charged as far as we know.


The prosecutors will look at different things. Is it in the public interest to prosecute-is their a likely chance of conviction. They will weigh up these things before deciding to prosecute. In the case above i would think it would be unlikely that a jury would convict. But just because they don't prosecute in this case don't take it for granted that if you are some else did they same thing they would make the same decision.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:04 PM   #33
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and if i sat on a jury, and it was testified that the BG was full of holes in the back, unless there was a very, very good reason, i would probably find that person guilty. that's just my opinion and what i feel is right.
Not me, if a perp wants to commit a crime than they have rolled the dice and IMHO ..... they get what they get

whether shot in the back ... the front .... or the temple with his wrist tied behind his back ... I doubt I will find fault with a homeowner for protecting themselves
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:11 PM   #34
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Not me, if a perp wants to commit a crime than they have rolled the dice and IMHO ..... they get what they get

whether shot in the back ... the front .... or the temple with his wrist tied behind his back ... I doubt I will find fault with a homeowner for protecting themselves


The point is you don't know who's on the jury. They might not have a clue about firearms or be sympathetic to someone who put 5 rds in someone's back while he was running away. I don't know you but i would rather avoid being in that situation waiting for a verdict if i could.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:21 PM   #35
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and if he was running away and you shot him, and i sat on the jury, i would vote guilty on murder or attempted murder.
Did you read the part where the perp had a gun? The gun armed perp could turn and kill you in a heartbeat.

i've been in two shooting incidents with armed home invaders, i came out unscathed both times: Some of them are dead. With your reluctant to shoot attitude i'm not sure how you will come out the first time.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:29 PM   #36
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You are allowed to use lethal force in the UK as well. You are allowed to use reasonable force that could include lethal force depending on the threat.
A recent case below where a burglar was fatally stabbed by the owner of the house he had broken into.
Asked about the stabbing, Mr Clegg said: “The law is very clear: you have every right to defend yourself, your home, your property, your family.

“The law is really unambiguous on that and no one should feel they haven't got a right to do that.

As for using a firearm self defense is not seen as a god reason for owning a firearm except in some cases in N Ireland.
Legally owned firearms have being used in the UK in the past for self defence even tough that was not the reason the firearm was acquired.
As you are a UK resident, I should explain the reason why I said shotgun rather than firearm. A shotgun held on a shotgun certificate does not hold conditions as to it's use, whereas a firearm certificate does, for S.1 firearms.

My interest in writing my post is the whys and wherefors of the police removing all firearms from the housholder's home in such circumstances. The householder would be breaking no law. He would be acting lawfully, proportionally, sensibly, and rationally. The police would have no justification in law or practicality for removing all firearms from the home, and yet I am as sure as God made apples that they would do so.

The question is, then, why?
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by UKShootist

As you are a UK resident, I should explain the reason why I said shotgun rather than firearm. A shotgun held on a shotgun certificate does not hold conditions as to it's use, whereas a firearm certificate does, for S.1 firearms.

My interest in writing my post is the whys and wherefors of the police removing all firearms from the housholder's home in such circumstances. The householder would be breaking no law. He would be acting lawfully, proportionally, sensibly, and rationally. The police would have no justification in law or practicality for removing all firearms from the home, and yet I am as sure as God made apples that they would do so.

The question is, then, why?
Because they can...because government IS force...because you only have the right to self defence if you ask nicely, pay your fees, and they feel like letting you...because you unarmed makes government force easier to apply...

The list goes on but thats a start.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #38
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Here is how I see the British gov't attitude to arms:

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Old 07-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #39
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Did you read the part where the perp had a gun? The gun armed perp could turn and kill you in a heartbeat.

i've been in two shooting incidents with armed home invaders, i came out unscathed both times: Some of them are dead. With your reluctant attitude i'm not sure how you will come out the fiirst time.
you can think of me as you wish, but i like to think i am cautious if not prudent and would like to make sure it's not me sitting in prison after the fact. i think going after a fleeing armed intruder as needless and foolish simply because of the possible legal ramifications and the fact they yes they can turn on you and kill you in a heartbeat as you put it. doesn't anyone see the smarter thing to do is stand your ground, stay and protect the family if you have them and reload any firearms in case they did happen to return, while waiting on LEO's to show up? we did call 911 when this first started didn't we? and if you happen to be chasing after a BG with a firearm, how is the LEO going to know who's the GG and who's the BG when he rolls up on the scene? better to be in the house on the phone letting the dispatcher know that the homeowner is armed and has shot at or shot an intruder that has fled the scene. just my viewpoint and opinion.

BTW, if the intruder doesn't leave at the sight of my firearm and is a threat and continues to be a threat and is armed, he will be shot until he is no longer a threat. i am also of the thinking that when the intruder encounters and armed homeowner, and a few shots are traded, he will be of a mind to leave as he probably knows that the homeowner has called for LE and i am sure he won't want to stick around and go toe to toe with them.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:48 PM   #40
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In my home state of Wyoming, and most other places that I'm familar with, you cannot legally shoot a fleeing felon. The requirement for self/home defense is that the perp must present a real and immediate threat of death ot severe bodily harm to you or another innocent person.

Tha "Castle Doctrine" protects you in your home, but it does not allow you to kill a person trying to escape, who presents no threat to you or others.
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Even a LEO cannot shoot a fleeing felon except under very narrow, VERYlimited circumstances.


The key word here is "fleeing." You can't shoot a person running away from you.

In a court of law, the "RPM" test is used. RPM is "reasonable, prudent man." If a reasonable, prudent man would have felt that his life was threatened, lethal force is legally justified. If not, you're in trouble.

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