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Old 02-22-2011, 04:35 AM   #81
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here's a saying or 3 from my time:

suck it up and get over it;

if ya fall down, get up, dust yourself off, keep going;

don't be a titty baby.

closure is for titty babies..............it's for sheltered individuals that play after-school soccer, baseball/softball, basketball, football in order to "NOT WIN OR LOSE," cuz EVERYBODY is a winner! the winning team does not owe you an apology just because you lost.

you must have winners and you must have losers. you must have those that get an A (cuz they studied their @sses off), a B (cuz they didn't study enough), a C (cuz they half-@ssed it), a D (cuz they didn't study), and an F (cuz they didn't give a sh!t).

you don't get closure when you're 30 years old, have a wife, a daughter, and one on the way, and get shot down for a BIG promotion. these are children, i understand, but they have to understand that the world is filled with evil and hate. it's not going away. to teach them that SOMEONE OR "SOMETHING" is ALWAYS to blame (other than who/what is really to blame) is NOT healthy.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:14 AM   #82
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It appears you have a very firm stance on the situation (nothing wrong with that), but don't you think there are some extenuating circumstances, such as the Columbine incident? It can be expected that you won't win every sports game you ever play, and you won't get an A on every test you take. I can guarantee that there are very view kids who go into school each day expecting to be shot and/or blown up by two of their classmates. And like I said earlier, there is no protocol to help the injured students. Events like this are sure to have severe psychological effects. Such as; PTSD, anxiety, depression, and many others are possible. Closure can be obtained simply though time, but sometimes it takes a long time. I know they are not direct comparisons, but there are some similarities. Think about comparing a person in a battle in a war, and the Columbine incident. Both people will have been shot at, seen people killed, and will possibly have some form of mental affect ofter the incident, whether it be long or short term. Now think about the differences. In war you are expecting to be shot at/killed (or at least know its a possibility), you have been trained at least a little in handling with death and dying, and you are supposed to be able to defend yourself and others to the best of your ability. In the Columbine incident, these kids are not trained to deal with that type of tragedy, they are certainly not expecting to be shot at/killed, and have literally zero methods of defending themselves, let alone other kids. And through all of this, soldiers still suffer many mental problems, and they were trained for, and expecting (as best as the could) the things they saw. The students were blindsided by the whole event and had very few to no resources on their side. I feel that this has to qualify for some form of extenuating circumstance for these injured students. I think they understand the world has evil in it more than many other children in America. As far as who is to blame, blaming others is not only wrong, but will help these kids with nothing but crippling them for later. It is the killer's fault, and there's really not much more to that. I'm not suggesting that these kids gain closure by blaming anything and everything under the sun, but instead, by going directly to the source. For example, having a serious private talk between the killer's parents and the injured students, and during that talk make sure everyone understands who is really at fault, and how they can make things better for each other, together. But honestly, that will never happen, because as you pointed out, we always have to blame others. It's a sad fact, but America is very good at it. Scary good. I've said an awful lot in this post, so I'll cut mine short so I can get some input from others.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:23 AM   #83
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Just a thought- because we Do have several distinct generations here on FTF- Do some research on the term "who you are is where you were when..." It is a simple identification of some of the differences amongst us- and how life events shape who you are. And there are some watershed events that stand out to different folks- 9-11 is a major one, as is the assassination of Kennedy, day man landed on the moon, etc.

And yes, an event like Columbine had to be a horrible shock to the people involved. So is being in a really bad car wreck- and just as sudden. Part of what makes C3 be C3 are the things I have experienced. In terms of emotional trauma, my lady was born in England. During WWII. Christened in the ruins of the cathedral. Her granny lost her home during the Blitz. She and her brother were moved due to the bombing (her Mom was a nurse and could not move) I don't know that there is "closure' for something like a 1000 lb bomb in the neighbor's house- but millions of people DID manage to cope with it. Some did not.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:11 AM   #84
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Very well said old timer.(LOL)


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Old 02-23-2011, 02:24 AM   #85
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I tried looking it up, but every site I went to wanted me to buy something. I do get what you're saying though. It's a really important point that I had never really thought of as a factor in this discussion. And it just makes so much sense! Too much sense.... (looks around suspiciously). Many of you have experienced things that I can only read about in books and learn about from others. (Kennedy assassination(s), landing on the moon, all wars up to the most current one) And even with the events that we have all experienced, we will have different opinions, not only because we are different people, but because were are from a different time. I knew I'd learn a lot from this!

As far as anything that has to do with WWII, I don't really have much to say. I have literally zero idea what that time and war was like, so I don't dare make a comment on anything pertaining to it. All I do know is that it seemed like an absolutely terrible time to live in Europe and I can't even begin to fathom the amount of suffering that occurred all over the world. I just have no idea, honestly.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:27 AM   #86
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Panda your growing right before my eyes. (LOL)Your a pretty smart young man.


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Old 02-23-2011, 03:01 AM   #87
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HEY! EVERYBODY! Wanna watch me make Panda feel OLD?

Hey Panda! Do you realize that this past September, we have the first class entering High School that the members of that class ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER 9-11?

Seriously. The kids that entered high school THIS YEAR were 4 years old when the 9-11 attacks took place.

But that's OK- you can come on over, and hang out with us fossils. We'll even let you borrow one of the aluminum walkers for your date.

:

And for the "who you are is where you were" find a book called Passages. Check local used paperback shops. PS- used to listen to my great uncle talking about fighting in Europe. Stories about tank warfare that blew me away. Fighting Germans, superior weapons, etc. A more massive war than I could imagine. But then, World War ONE was known as The Great War. Watershed events for HIM had included WW I, the Depression, etc.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:56 AM   #88
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you want to know what it is like?

well, a little anyway..........watch "Saving Private Ryan," FOLLOWED BY the "BAND OF BROTHERS" disc series, then you might get a picture.

i was told by several that had fought in WWII that they cried like children when they saw these movies, i couldn't imagine -- the war, OR them crying.

i cry EVERYTIME the doors open on the boats, and the "buzzsaws" cut the US soldiers down.....inside their own boats.
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"if it was up to me, i'd like to see, this country run,
the way it used to be, the way it oughta be, just like it's done, OUT HERE.........WAY OUT HERE." -Josh Thompson, country music singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0sYnro_3Rc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3R00rlA0S0&NR=1

PEOPLE TEND TO ACT LIKE SHEEP, BOY I LOVE MUTTON! -Me

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Old 02-23-2011, 04:50 AM   #89
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Thanks guys! That actually does me me feel a little old. It's crazy knowing that they have no real idea of what it was truly like. Granted I was only in 5th grade when it happened. Can I please borrow a walker? My knee hurts when the weather changes. Dang knee problems! I'll see if I can't get my hands on the book. WWI?! Great, something I know even less about.

I own saving Private Ryan, and have seen it many times. I've watched Band of Brothers through at least once. I honestly still don't follow it as well as I could when I watch it. It still confuses me But one of my favorite lines from anything filmed comes from BoB. "Remember boys, flys spread disease. So keep yours closed!"
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:20 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USEBOTHHANDS View Post
you want to know what it is like?

well, a little anyway..........watch "Saving Private Ryan," FOLLOWED BY the "BAND OF BROTHERS" disc series, then you might get a picture.

i was told by several that had fought in WWII that they cried like children when they saw these movies, i couldn't imagine -- the war, OR them crying.

i cry EVERYTIME the doors open on the boats, and the "buzzsaws" cut the US soldiers down.....inside their own boats.
My Dad was a WWI and Kora vet. He died before before BOB comed out but I remmber seing Tora Tora Tora at the theater with him when I was a kid.It was the first time I seen him show any real emotion about anything. He would get pretty worked up watching some of the older Time Life VHS tapes too. THe only time I ever seen him cry was when he heard the national Anthem (which he ALWAYS stood up for andremoved histat...even on TV) and when one of the last of his war buddies died. He talked to me for hours telling stories I never heard from him before. All I could think was thiis one tough a$$ bastage to grow up in the Depression era just to go into that. THEN volunteer for the next one! All I can think now are those are/where some tough a$$ bastages! WE all think we have it tough sometimes. Nothing I've done gets near that though.

AS to Columbine...It was real bad. I watched Moore's vid (downloaded it..I didn't want to spend money on it..Thanks peer nets!). Like many "documentaries" it was slanted to the views that the film maker wanted to express. While it was a very bad thing to happen the reactionary attitutes given by Moore as well as those like him I do not agree with.
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