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Bowling For Columbine

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Old 02-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #21
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Sadpanda is pandering for MediaMatters.Com. This is a left wing Web site that provides propaganda for debunking conservitive web forums etc. These people show up with these crap questions on all the gun forums. They are also quick and polite about putting down the NRA. Check out the hole they hid in. Medi Matters.Com.

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Old 02-17-2011, 02:08 PM   #22
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Writing propaganda is an art form that Mr Moore has mastered. He has taken half truths, false data, manipulated other peoples words to bring about a very large lie and make it believable to those who can not see past his deception. He cares about no one but himself and will destroy anyone or anything for money and making his place in history. Hopefully history will show his true nature and he will be exposed as another Quisling.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:38 PM   #23
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My reference to the attorney issue was the following.
As I stated not all attorneys are bad attorneys. My uncle advised me that 1 out of 10 law students should actually be getting a law degree today. He was referring to the standards of their ability. But the schools are turning them our by the groves. He called them Ambulance Chasers! After his almost 50 years as attorney, prosecutor, Judge and finally Corporate Attorney experience. To get back to the point. What I meant was that a lot of people in general, teachers and school administrators are almost forced in to being too cautious prior to these incidents when the flags are waiving for fear of a law suit being filed. Therefore, being reluctant to take stern action prior to these events. Some time only confronting a situation because there is no other way or it is too late. And that is the way our society is leaning. For example one business owner allowed kids to skateboard on his shopping center lot after the stores closed. Later one kid fell and broke his arm. And here came the ambulance chasers and the kids parents. They Sued the owner for the kid breaking his arm on the property when the man had previously advised us to leave them alone they were OK and had permission. Well you bet that changed! Well enough on that issue! Back to the Forum! Good stimulating post!

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Old 02-17-2011, 02:42 PM   #24
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If he is? You bet Media Matters here on FTF! If they do not believe it, lest we remind them of the past recent elections. Only the beginning I might add! They can take that to the bank!

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Old 02-17-2011, 04:00 PM   #25
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Michael Moore doesn't make Documentaries. He makes fictional films made to look like Documentaries (also known as a Mockumentary). He puts on a good show, but don't take his films seriously. His films are about as real as the reality shows on MTV.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:55 PM   #26
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Kind of strange sadpanda has not responded since he started this post.Well maybe not!

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Old 02-17-2011, 10:13 PM   #27
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Mods, please lock this thread and lets move on.. nothing else needs to be said.

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Old 02-17-2011, 10:16 PM   #28
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A "documentary" on guns (or anything else) by Moore is an oxymoron.

It holds the same credibility as a documentary on race relations by the KKK, or a documentary on the legitimacy of the state of Israel by Iran.

If you watched it and think it's "a really great film," and "feel like it really made you think about not only your views, but the views of people around you," then you're truly gullible.

A used square of Mr. Whipples' best holds more value than any Michael Moore film.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by TheSadPanda View Post
I had searched to see if this movie had been discussed on here before, but I couldn't find anything on it. Also, I wasn't sure what topic to put it under, so I decided this was the best place. I'm sorry if I messed up on either one of those.
we generally dont bother with lars like moore. he isnt worth the time.

anyway you want the truth (there is far more there than what i care to cut and paste) try this:

excerpt taken from:

For a broader coverage of Moore, try my new site: It links back to this page, so you can return.


Documentary or Fiction?

-David T. Hardy-

Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" won the Oscar for best documentary. Unfortunately, it is not a documentary, by the Academy's own definition.

The injustice here is not so much to the viewer, as to the independent producers of real documentaries. These struggle in a field which receives but a fraction of the recognition and financing of the "entertainment industry." They are protected by Academy rules limiting the documentary competition to nonfiction.

Bowling is fiction. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Statements are made which are false. Moore leads the reader to draw inferences which he must have known were wrong. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which were not sentences he uttered. Bowling uses deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect.

A film which does this may be a commercial success. It may be entertaining. But it is not a documentary. One need only consult Rule 12 of the rules for the Academy Award: a documentary is a non-fictional movie.

The point is not that Bowling is biased. No, the point is that Bowling is deliberately, seriously, and consistently deceptive.

1. Willie Horton. The first edition of the webpage had a section on falsification of the election ad regarding Willie Horton (the convict, not the baseball star). This was one of the earliest criticisms of Bowling--Ben Fritz caught it back in November, 2002.

To illustrate politicians' (and especially Republican politicians') willingness to play the "race card," Bowling shows what purports to be a television ad run by George Bush, Sr., in his race against Governor Dukakis. For those who weren't around back then -- Massachusetts had a "prison furlough" program where prisoners could be given short releases from the clink. Unfortunately, some of them never came back. Dukakis vetoed legislation which would have forbidden furlough to persons with "life without parole" sentences for murder, and authorities thereafter furloughed a number of murderers. Horton, in prison for a brutal stabbing murder, got a furlough, never returned, and then attacked a couple, assaulting both and raping the woman. His opponents in the presidential race took advantage of the veto.

The ad as shown by Moore begins with a "revolving door" of justice, progresses to a picture of Willie Horton (who is black), and ends with dramatic subtitle: "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Bowling splices together two different election ads, one run by the Bush campaign (featuring a revolving door, and not even mentioning Horton) and another run by an independent expenditure campaign (naming Horton, and showing footage from which it can be seen that he is black). At the end, the ad ala' Moore has the customary note that it was paid for by the Bush-Quayle campaign. Moore intones "whether you're a psychotic killer or running for president of the United States, the one thing you can always count on is white America's fear of the black man." There is nothing to reveal that most of the ad just seen (and all of it that was relevant to Moore's claim) was not the Bush-Quayle ad, which didn't even name Horton.

Fact: Apparently unsatisfied with splicing the ads, Bowling's editors added a subtitle "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Ben Fitz also noted that Bowling's editors didn't bother to research the events before doctoring the ads. Horton's second arrest was not for murder. (The second set of charges were aggravated assault and rape).

I originally deleted this from the main webpage, because in the VHS version of Bowling Moore had the decency to remove the misleading footage. But as Brendan Nyhan recently wrote in Spinsanity, he put it back in in the DVD version! He did make one minor change, switching his edited-in caption to "Willie Horton released. Then rapes a woman." Obviously Moore had been informed of the Spinsanity criticism. He responded by correcting his own typo, not by removing the edited in caption, nor by revealing that the ad being shown was not in fact a Bush-Quayle ad.

2. NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy. A major theme in Bowling is that NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit the facts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence.

A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:

Weeping children outside Columbine;

Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"

Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"

The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.

Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:

In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.

Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting.

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments.

if you want more go to the site above. the truth shall set you free. if you choose to open your eyes and stop filling your head with crap from mediamatters.

it takes extremely little effort with google to peel away the big fat lies moore brady and libs spread about guns. the number one thing overlooked by so called intelligent moore is the fact it was ILLEGAL to bring guns in school they are a gun free zone no matter where you go in the country. gun control only prevents honest people from owning and using guns.

get your facts straight before spreading lies.
"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

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Old 02-17-2011, 11:30 PM   #30
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All lies and movie tricks.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.”

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupid"
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