In between a ban, and nothing - Page 2
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism >

In between a ban, and nothing


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2012, 03:03 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,844
Liked 781 Times on 452 Posts
Likes Given: 499

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedJava View Post
What is really disgusting is that whenever the NRA suggests gun free zones contribute to these killings they are accused of using the deaths of innocents to further their agenda.

I'm watching gun control advocates practically dancing on the graves of these children to push their agenda and they get a free pass.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at how they are capitalizing on this crisis to introduce legislation that would have no effect except to erode our rights. Somehow this is ok because it is "for the children".

Introduce something that will actually protect my kids and I'll support it. Otherwise they can take a long walk off a short pier.
Read through the list and see how many of the tactics have already appeared in the "debate" on gun control.

Quote:
1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.
3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."
5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."
6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."
8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."
11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."
12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)
The end for them is elimination of the 2A and they will exploit anyone and use lies, deceit and corruption to get there...never forget that.
__________________
"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington
Jpyle is offline  
c3shooter Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
charlesmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 109
Liked 61 Times on 32 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clr8ter
I have no doubt that everyone here thinks that banning guns or certain guns won't solve out current issues with all these people getting shot. But part of me says SOMETHING should b done. There is an article on Newser this morning that says we should have a national registry on guns AND ammo. No ban or restrictions on anything we can currently have. I say this is a very slippery slope to the govt. banning and/or collecting any and all guns & ammo.

How about something in between? I never hear anyone talk about the crazy people. When I buy a gun, there is nothing in the form, or on the background check about whether I'm crazy, been institutionalized, have a mental health background issue, or anything. (This is to the best of my knowledge.) Why? Would that be so hard to add that in to the paperwork and BG check? That would be basically the same as them checking you for felonies; if you're not supposed to have one anyway, oh well......tough. That way, the rest of us with no issues would not have our privacy infringed upon.

This is actually the basis, (I think), of my wife's anti-gun stance. Someone she knew with some apparent mental issues legally bought a gun and killed herself. Now, this would probably not solve the problem, or weed out every mentally unstable person, but it might be a good start.
In Oregon they ask about mental health
charlesmar is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:34 PM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gone_South's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central Mississippi
Posts: 441
Liked 116 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 115

Default

Form 4473.

Question 11. f. Have you ever been adjudicated mental defective(which includes a determination by a court,board,commission,or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourselfor to othersor are incompetent to manage your own affairs) Or have you ever been commited to a mental institution?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
Gone_South is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 06:14 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 4,015
Liked 1336 Times on 895 Posts
Likes Given: 857

Default

Yeah, I've been thinking about the mental health question all morning since I posted. My mistake. I have not memorized the form. But, I was truly not aware that was in the check when it was called in. Medical records are still private, or no? Does this go on just court rulings? If so, not every mentally ill person goes through the court system, I would imagine. I assumed certain people would just lie........it also asks if you've ever renounced your citizenship. (I don't know if they mean officially on another form, or just saying it to people.) If you had just talked about it, you could just lie. Basically, I do not know where the info comes from and goes to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really for any gun control. If this facet of people has already been covered, cool. I was just not aware they had been.

C3shooter - I agree with you that a national registry is not a solution. The idea was not mine, it was in the article. And I addressed your third point, that it's a very slippery slope to confiscation.

Last edited by clr8ter; 12-28-2012 at 06:23 PM.
clr8ter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #15
Welcoming Committee/ Resident Pellet Gunner
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FullautoUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marxachusetts
Posts: 2,627
Liked 626 Times on 477 Posts
Likes Given: 1111

Default

Registration is the first step to confiscation.
__________________
LIVE FREE OR DIE

[COLOR="Blue"]See my pellet guns here: http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/groups/ftf%20pellet%20gunners/air%20gun%20picture%20thread-149/

RESIDENT AIR GUN GUY
FullautoUSA is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:31 PM   #16
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 18,158
Liked 10730 Times on 4644 Posts
Likes Given: 1751

Default

Good point- and if you have not been involved with this, would be an unknown. Yes, health records are still private. HOWEVER- a person that has been ADJUDICATED (root word in there is JUDGE) mentally incompetent is not a medical issue, it is a legal one- and THAT goes into the Insta-Check database.

What is the difference?
A. I am a roadie for a rock band. During a road tour, there is a fire in the club. Lots of people die, including some of my best friends that are my co-workers. I get very upset at going into the next club to set up for a performance, and decide to seek some counseling. I get it. That is NOT being adjudicated mentally incompetent.

B. I am a roadie for a rock band. I have become convinced that the guy that drives the bus is one of Satan's helpers. I break into a performance screaming at the audience to run before Bernie (the driver) eats their souls.
I am tackled by security. The local police transport me to the Community mental health intake facility, where I am held for observation. The psychiatrist reports to the court that I am nuttier than extra crunchy peanut butter. Court orders that I be committed for treatment. THAT is adjudication.

Seeking help in times of extreme trouble is not insanity- it is a sign of a healthy mind. I have been involved in planning and conducting crisis management operations, and that is always included as part of the "after action". I will bet you a dollar to a doughnut that the folks that handled the bio-hazard cleanup at the Aurora theatre and the CT school (does not happen on its own, y'know) have arrangements for counselors for the workers that have the grim business of cleanup.
__________________
What we have here is... failure- to communicate.
c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:37 PM   #17
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 18,158
Liked 10730 Times on 4644 Posts
Likes Given: 1751

Default

JP- I see you read Saul Alinsky!

Understand your opponent.
__________________
What we have here is... failure- to communicate.
c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:38 PM   #18
Supporting Member
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
drvsafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,636
Liked 215 Times on 172 Posts
Likes Given: 116

Default

Try buying a firearm in New Jersey!
__________________
SIG 1911 .45 ACP
SIG P229R 9mm
Beretta BU9 Nano 9mm
Beretta 84FS .380 ACP
Ruger MKIII 22/45 Target .22LR

PWS (Primary Weapons Systems) MK114 5.56
drvsafe is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,844
Liked 781 Times on 452 Posts
Likes Given: 499

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
JP- I see you read Saul Alinsky!

Understand your opponent.
and then crush him like a cockroach...have read Tzu, Halsey (native son of New Jersey ) and Patton as well.
__________________
"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Last edited by Jpyle; 12-28-2012 at 07:45 PM.
Jpyle is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes




Newest Threads