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Old 05-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by JTJ
I know that I might not be here if I had not had a gun when I needed it. I will carry and live with the risk. The anti gun people want you to have the no gun attitude. Give in and they win.
Exactly.

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Old 05-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #22
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I would think...I could be wrong...but my inclination would be to believe that most people at this forum would probably tend to be a little above average in terms of firearms responsibility. Not certain but correct me if I'm wrong.

How many people can honestly say they have never, even once, lost their temper?
Can anyone? If you can, you're special. Or even better, who can say they have never made a bad decision?

I don't think it's as easy as saying you need to be "responsible" although that is indeed important. Suppose a crowd of people is threatening you and circling you in anger and chanting..."Justice for Trayvon!".. At what point would you expose your concealed weapon? After the first one jumped you? The first three? Or maybe when blood starts to flow down your face? Now suppose before they actually advance upon you, you feel that your safety is in peril and you pull out your gun and everyone backs away 10 ft...then the Police arrive and 20 people say you pulled your gun unprovoked with only your lone assertion that it was otherwise? How does responsibility get you off this hook? You could be facing felony assault charges. And the number of liberal prosecutors waiting in line to teach you a lesson is endless. They may be able to conjure up 25 years in prison for your little bad deed. This is what I'm talking about. Not that getting your face bashed in is better. But maybe they wouldn't have killed you. Just roughed you up a bit. Now you're facing 25 years behind bars potentially. You can probably be assured of more frequent attacks in prison than on the street.

To the word responsibility, I have to suggest "Control" is just as important. When facing a very trying situation, losing control would be letting your anger (or fear) nudge you into doing something that may not be logical or legal. Many otherwise "responsible" people have lost control and done things they didn't mean to do. A "heat of the moment" situation. It's not that they were irresponsible, they were just human. We make mistakes.
If your definition of responsible includes control (I see them as being a bit different) then my bad.

Aren't there lots of people who were considered responsible in prison for losing "control".

My concern is the harshness the Judicial system takes with sometimes small things and some noob prosecutor or staunch Liberal anti-gun judge or prosecutor takes it upon himself or herself to teach us all a lesson by imposing excessive punishment on otherwise responsible, good people who happen to be gun owners.

Do we really know the statistics on the number of people with no other history of legal problems who found themselves in a situation of legal turmoil due to something really small? Especially where noone was actually harmed ?

I'm thinking out loud. And yes, I'm human and I'm generally a patient and responsible person...but still....it has crossed my mind. Am I doing the right (or best) thing carrying a concealed weapon? Never mind the armory I have at home...having weapons at home is a whole different ballgame than having one concealed when you're out in public.

I guess I'm concerned that our society is not setup in such a way that people who exercise their 2nd amendment rights are protected from undue process and prosecution.

(Geez...I may need a publisher for that short novel)
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by GatorDude View Post
Galapogos poses and interesting question. I know everyone on this forum is pretty level headed. But, some folks aren't. I think every potential gun owner should look in the mirror and think carefully before deciding to buy a gun or carry a gun concealed. Gun ownership is a right everyone has, but it's also a right that many folks might think twice about exercising. If you are quick to anger, if you can't hold your tongue and walk away from an argument, then you might not want to have a gun readily at hand. If you and/or your associates are involved in criminal activity, you are just adding years to the sentence you'll receive when you get caught. If you are a binge drinker, a habitual drunk, or a drug user, you probably ought not get a gun. If you get depressed or if you've been diagnosed as a manic depressive or you live with someone who has, gun ownership is probably not for you. It's really common sense stuff and a lot of it is on the background check form. But, people really need to think about this stuff or they could get themselves in deep trouble.


Seven Reasons Why You Shouldn't Have a Gun
Thanks GatorDude. You nailed it. These are good things to think about when carrying a weapon. I'm not against it at all. Just concerned on the possible ramifications.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
Prison is a roof over your head, food every day, tv, and a prison job.

Dead is dead. A cold grave while your body dissolves.

Just remember to respond proportionally to the threat.

Don't gun somebody down for punching you once in the face.
Shoebee may I ask you a question?
Have you ever been to prison (not jail) for a year or more?

I haven't but I don't think prison is a cakewalk by any stretch in spite of the popular belief that it is. Most people (not all) in prison are there because of bad behavior. Many due to VERY bad behavior. It is where the dregs of society land and violence is the norm.
I do know a guy who went to prison on a firearms violation and as tough as he was, he lost teeth and vowed never to go back in there. It's a daily fight to prove you're tough and all about ego and stupid, meaningless posturing.

I'm not sure I'd feel much to live for facing a long stint as a bed buddy with gang bangers and thugs who have nothing to live for and are chock full of hatred.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:01 PM   #25
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Years ago my worthless brother in law (wifes bro) beat on his then wife while drunk and on crack. She threw the kids in the car and brought them to my house, then left to go somewhere else. He came to my house demanding to see his kids, I said when he was sober he could.

After several minutes of arguing he began hitting and punching me, I was prepared with pepper spray while my wife called the deputies( rural location). At the time it was the best sold to civilians. It worked great, he couldn't hardly breathe, snot came out in 8-10 inch strings, uncontrolled tears. Needless to say, he was pissed.

Eventually it wore off and he proceeded to start fighting me again. Out came the spray again, he's a bit of a slow learner. It took the deputies almost 20 minutes to show up, no disrespect to them. He went to jail where he belongs, and should have been at the time. He has since committed more crimes I can remember, robbery, various assaults including an officer, robbed a gas station, etc.

Moral of the story, I don't know for sure. I believe I could have shot him in self defense legally, but I took the chance with pepper spray. I didn't want to shoot him in front of his sister, my wife, or worse in front of his kids, even though it would have been a favor to humanity. The world would have gained from me using a gun that night but would have lost in many ways.

Since then his oldest kid and I have become close, she's 13 and needs a father figure in her life. (I had her shoot a 22 for the first time in her life, her first 3 shots and all three hit a 18 by 24 target at 150 yards!)

Several weeks ago he broke out of rehab and is "on the run" for violating a court order, probation. He is like he is because of his mom powdering his ass his whole life, and the courts giving him handslap sentances repeatedly. I know, this a whole other subject.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:06 PM   #26
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Reading that story makes me think of something, namely the pepper spray. I wonder what the implications would be in using some of that wasp spray? It's some nasty stuff. I've killed mice with it. I seen it distort rubber. I would imagine it would make them permanently blind at the very least.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon
Reading that story makes me think of something, namely the pepper spray. I wonder what the implications would be in using some of that wasp spray? It's some nasty stuff. I've killed mice with it. I seen it distort rubber. I would imagine it would make them permanently blind at the very least.
Criminal offense for cruel and unusual punishment........use it I say

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Old 05-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by galapogos View Post
Shoebee may I ask you a question?
Have you ever been to prison (not jail) for a year or more?

I haven't but I don't think prison is a cakewalk by any stretch in spite of the popular belief that it is. Most people (not all) in prison are there because of bad behavior. Many due to VERY bad behavior. It is where the dregs of society land and violence is the norm.
I do know a guy who went to prison on a firearms violation and as tough as he was, he lost teeth and vowed never to go back in there. It's a daily fight to prove you're tough and all about ego and stupid, meaningless posturing.

I'm not sure I'd feel much to live for facing a long stint as a bed buddy with gang bangers and thugs who have nothing to live for and are chock full of hatred.
Galapagos, while working in JAG for the USMC and USN, I have encarcerated various marines into the brig, which is like a jail, and afterwards some of them went to prison.

The first such marine was a sergeant who got drunk on duty while in charge of a vehicle detail returning to the base at San Diego.

The second such marine was a corporal who got drunk and ran over a motorcyclist on the San Diego freeway and killed him. He did not remember a thing about it. He said he vaguely recalled hitting a pothole or bump or something of the like.

The others I don't specifically recall anymore after all this time. So I have seen the inside of a prison, as a visitor to prisoners there.

You are much better off in a military prison than civilian, because the military at least imposes dicipline in their prisons, unlike the civilians, who have totally lost control of theirs.

But for the most part, in civilian prisons, there are a fair amount of prisoners who have been falsely or unjustly convicted. In a case like that, you would simply need to bide your time, until you could get out.

Get the point? About prisons?

You are correct that when you take up a weapon, any weapon, you are taking a whole new responsibility upon yourself.

Most people also consider marines and former-marines to be weapons even empty handed. That after their training, which they never forget, particularly the bayonette field, they are capable of extreme acts of sacrifice or crime. When they do something heroic, the papers always say, "former marine." When they do something criminal, which is rare (Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Whitman), the papers also say "former marine."

So whenever you join the Marine Corps you are taking a whole new responsibility upon yourself.

I do not consider life-long civilians to be particularly well trained no matter how many NRA classes they take or teach.

I do respect the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, and law enforcement however, and their veterans.

I do not have any idea which category you yourself fall into. But your questions are good questions.

Last edited by Shoobee; 05-20-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:24 PM   #29
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Everybody goes on and on about "needless violence", "accidental deaths",

and "gun violence".

Nobody wants to think about the

MILLIONS WHO DIE
at the hands of

governmental gun control.

Those who don't study history are condemned to repeat it.

I wonder what any of those killed after their protection from

tyranny was taken from them would tell us,

if they could speak now...
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:37 PM   #30
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