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-   -   Better off with no gun ? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/better-off-no-gun-64830/)

galapogos 05-20-2012 04:48 AM

Better off with no gun ?
 
The state of affairs in the Nation scares me a bit.

One wrong move, even accidental, and you can become a convicted felon and find yourself in prison for an uncomfortably long time. It REALLY doesn't take much.

I wonder how many people who get a Concealed Carry permit wind up in SERIOUS trouble or in prison because of a moment of indiscretion. You almost have to be a lawyer to avoid trouble. It seems prosecutors and cops are just looking for a reason to nail average otherwise law abiding citizens and label them criminals and felons.

I'm ready for the barrage of "I'd rather be in trouble than in a coffin" replies but really. We've learned that even self defense is no defense. And that criminals seem to have the upper hand often. How common is it where the perp sues the victim and WINS !!

I think the Justice system is out of control. Jail sentences are handed out like candy and often horribly disproportionately. A blue collar crime gets 40 years while a thug with a rap sheet miles long gets off with a hand slap after taking someone's life. Even juries can't always be trusted to return a fair verdict.

In light of all this, it's not really all that common to come across a situation where your life is threatened. I mean, yes, OCCASIONALLY it happens and in those rare circumstances your life can be saved by being armed....but I say it's not that often.
Are you ALWAYS in total control of your emotions? Always?

So is the exposure to the risk of going foul with the law WORTH the risk of having and carrying a gun given the wussified state of this Nation and the readiness of prosecutors to dole out jail time in multiples of 20 years for even the most ridiculous reasons?

Your thoughts could be interesting.

thx

Shoobee 05-20-2012 05:02 AM

Prison is a roof over your head, food every day, tv, and a prison job.

Dead is dead. A cold grave while your body dissolves.

Just remember to respond proportionally to the threat.

Don't gun somebody down for punching you once in the face.

towboater 05-20-2012 05:11 AM

Can't a person be seriously injured, or even killed by a punch in the face?

Marlinman 05-20-2012 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towboater
Can't a person be seriously injured, or even killed by a punch in the face?

Yes but shoobee is the all knowing master so what does "simple minded rednecks" know even though between the two of us we have almost certainly seen more blood spilled than he can imagine.

God didnt make all men equal colonel Sam Colt did

GatorDude 05-20-2012 05:27 AM

Galapogos poses and interesting question. I know everyone on this forum is pretty level headed. But, some folks aren't. I think every potential gun owner should look in the mirror and think carefully before deciding to buy a gun or carry a gun concealed. Gun ownership is a right everyone has, but it's also a right that many folks might think twice about exercising. If you are quick to anger, if you can't hold your tongue and walk away from an argument, then you might not want to have a gun readily at hand. If you and/or your associates are involved in criminal activity, you are just adding years to the sentence you'll receive when you get caught. If you are a binge drinker, a habitual drunk, or a drug user, you probably ought not get a gun. If you get depressed or if you've been diagnosed as a manic depressive or you live with someone who has, gun ownership is probably not for you. It's really common sense stuff and a lot of it is on the background check form. But, people really need to think about this stuff or they could get themselves in deep trouble.


Seven Reasons Why You Shouldn't Have a Gun

c3shooter 05-20-2012 10:11 AM

A wiser man than me used to tell me "We cannot be all things to all people." You can bet he did not work for the Federal Govt. A corollary to that- we cannot be the Mommy to all.

IF someone is dumb enough to acquire a handgun and misuse it, that becomes a self correcting matter. Just as a criminal that acquires a gun, and misuses it.

However, despite the HUGE numbers of ill trained, poorly educated, emotionally unstable NON-professionals that hold a Concealed permit (or so the Brady Campaign keeps telling me), the percentage of people that even have a permit revoked for inappropriate behavior is astonishingly LOW. A fraction of a fraction of 1%.

So where are the streets awash with blood? We have been told repeatedly- if the average Joe (or Josephine) carries a gun, the streets will be running with blood. Every fender bender will be the OK Corral. Did I miss it? Dang! Hate it when that happens! :rolleyes:

Yes, misusing a firearm IS going to mess up your life big time, in assorted ways. But there are a hell of a lot more people that have fallen into that mess by letting their car keys get too close to a beer bottle.

Life IS a series of choices. Some folks ARE going to choose unwisely. However, if my choices are being a victim, or being a defendant, my attorney can get me out of jail. He cannot get me out of the cemetery. Being alive allows me to continue to make choices. Being dead does not.

JonM 05-20-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorDude (Post 808252)
Galapogos poses and interesting question. I know everyone on this forum is pretty level headed. But, some folks aren't. I think every potential gun owner should look in the mirror and think carefully before deciding to buy a gun or carry a gun concealed. Gun ownership is a right everyone has, but it's also a right that many folks might think twice about exercising. If you are quick to anger, if you can't hold your tongue and walk away from an argument, then you might not want to have a gun readily at hand. If you and/or your associates are involved in criminal activity, you are just adding years to the sentence you'll receive when you get caught. If you are a binge drinker, a habitual drunk, or a drug user, you probably ought not get a gun. If you get depressed or if you've been diagnosed as a manic depressive or you live with someone who has, gun ownership is probably not for you. It's really common sense stuff and a lot of it is on the background check form. But, people really need to think about this stuff or they could get themselves in deep trouble.


Seven Reasons Why You Shouldn't Have a Gun

Wow that article describes ows types perfectly.

Nanny staters that think the government and police will protect you probably shouldnt own guns.

Millions and millions of people go through the day every day armed. Its rare beyound belief for someone to do something monumentally stupid like zimmerman interjecting himself into someone elses business and end up with a murder charge.

The first rule of self defense whether you carry a gun or a knife or taser or pepper spray or go around naked as the day you were born is: "mind your own damn business"

Injecting yourself into a situation where you dont belong is how you end up dead injured or in jail. Whether you posses a gun or not has nothing to do with it.

niteglock 05-20-2012 10:35 AM

If you can, listen to Chicago news everyday and you will see how many people are killed daily in this city. Almost all of them are innocent men, women, and kids. Everyday I listen to the news on radio at work and hear about at the least 6 people a day dead from violence/guns. one weekend we had 30. That's Friday and Saturday. Crazy. That's another reason we need a carry law out here. Make em think twice about running up on someone.

Axxe55 05-20-2012 11:02 AM

gun ownership is a responsiblity as much as it is a right. handling guns safely should always be priority one. carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and isn't a fashion statement or some way to appear badass and cool. it is IMO, an item to have and never need, rather to need and not have. if you carry concealed, then no one should ever know you carry. that's the purpose of concealed carry. if you carry open, keep a lower profile, and don't draw unneeded attention to yourself. as said before, mind your own business. just because you carry, doesn't give you anymore right to act in some type of LE capacity. if a crime is committed in your presence, unless someones life is in mortal danger, you can better serve the LEO's in being a good witness and giving accurate details and descriptions of the offenders.

with many stats now passing Castle Laws, we now have laws that are designed to protect law abiding citizens who have to resort to deadly force to defend themselves. which means the burden of proof that you didn't have to use deadly force is now taken from you and not the other way around as it use to be. also i have said this before, and will say it again, just because you have the right to use deadly force, doesn't mean you have to. IMO, resorting to a gun is the last available option and not the first reaction to a problem.

seven reasons not to own a firearm? the seven reasons listed are pretty much standard reasons that are listed on the ATF form 4473. if you're a convicted felon, you can't purchase legally in the first place. lying on the ATF form 4473 is a seperate felony in itself.

wjnfirearms 05-20-2012 11:49 AM

Axxe used one word that fits the bill quite nicely. The word is RESPONSIBILITY. The Castle laws, including the part that exempts the lawful user of deadly force from civil liability as in our's here in the Keystone, is all well and good, but the shoot has to be justified in the first place for the Castle laws to be valid in any situation. Responsibility is all encompassing starting from education to knowing when or when not to pull the weapon and so on.


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