Attention all you online sellers. What is your standard legal mumbo jumbo?
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:02 AM   #1
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Default Attention all you online sellers. What is your standard legal mumbo jumbo?

So i was starting to list some of my guns on an auction site tonight, and i started to research all of the "legal" lines/paragraphs that everyone puts on there ads. Most of what i found seemed to be from dealers (people that have sold a lot of stuff). So i was wondering if i am different being a private seller.

I was curious as to what you guys would call your "must have" lines (i.e. "By bidding you are confirming that you are 21 years of age...."). Or are you protected by the site (i am using gunbroker.com). I am only accepting postal money orders, and will put in that the gun will be shipped the day after the funds have been received and verified. and i plan on putting no shipping outside the U.S.. But i have not decided about California, i don't really know the hardships that come along with selling there.

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Old 11-11-2010, 06:39 PM   #2
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If anyone wants to critique my first listing, here it is. If you think i am missing anything pertinent to the legalities, please let me know.
RARE - Mossberg 500 Knoxx Sidewinder & 10 rnd Drum : Pump at GunBroker.com

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Old 11-12-2010, 12:04 AM   #3
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Not so much a critique as a suggestion- Wording for your auction-
1. Buyers are responsible for knowing your gun laws, and whether this item is legal in your location.
2. All firearms will be shipped only to a FFL. FFL info MUST be received before shipping.
3. I am not a FFL. Be certain that YOUR FFL is willing to accept a firearm from a non-FFL. I will include a copy of my driver's license in the package with the firearm so that your FFL can log it in.
4. Payment must be by postal money order unless prior arrangements have been made.
5. No foreign sales.


Reasons? #1 is for the bozo that buys a gun that when it gets TO his FFL, FFL looks at it, and says "Not in this state, buddy." #2- crossing a state line, modern firearm, required by law. Also insulates you from someone trying to buy something they cannot own in that state. An FFL CAN own things that state law does not allow- since he can resell to out of state. All you need is the dealers name, FFL #, and address. You can verify that on the ATF E Z Check system. Ship ONLY to the dealer's address. Can be an 01 FFL (Dealer) or 02 FFL (pawnbroker). #3- perfectly legal for a FFL to RECEIVE a gun from anyone, but SOME seem to think it is not. Get that out of the way. Give them a copy of your DL- the RECEIVING FFL needs to log it into HIS bound volume of acquisitions and dispositions. #4- If a dealer, with good feedback on GB wants to buy it, and send you a company check, or a cashier's check, and YOU HAVE DISCUSSED THIS- why not? Otherwise, Postal Money Orders are damned hard to counterfeit. Ones from Stop & Rob Quickee Mart DO get counterfeited. Take a postal to the post office, they will verify right there. #5. Unless you know export laws on firearms, do not even think about it. PS- Pack it good, lotsa padding, INSURE IT.

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Old 11-12-2010, 12:20 AM   #4
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I'm a part-time gun dealer,
as mentioned, since your gun will need to be shipped to the buyer's FFL your
only liabilitys are going to be if buyer's form of payment bounces and for reasonable shipping charges, you should state that Buyer's FFL be willing to accept the gun from a Non-FFL shipper (you) if not the buyer is liable for the additional shipping / FFL services that may occur.
I have received several phony money orders over the last four years and one phony certified cashier's check supposedly drawn on a Bank of America. By being stubborn I haven't been ripped off in this fashion yet...
Almost forgot, one time the buyer found out that he could not legally own a gun( because he was an illegal from Asia) and 6 weeks after buying the gun he wanted me to return his money. I decided to charge him a restocking fee because after 6 weeks I had already gotten another of this same model gun. A year later the guy hacked my computer and bought me a camera (with my own money) as revenge for the 15% I charged him.

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Old 11-12-2010, 03:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
I'm a part-time gun dealer,
as mentioned, since your gun will need to be shipped to the buyer's FFL your
only liabilitys are going to be if buyer's form of payment bounces and for reasonable shipping charges, you should state that Buyer's FFL be willing to accept the gun from a Non-FFL shipper (you) if not the buyer is liable for the additional shipping / FFL services that may occur.
I have received several phony money orders over the last four years and one phony certified cashier's check supposedly drawn on a Bank of America. By being stubborn I haven't been ripped off in this fashion yet...
Almost forgot, one time the buyer found out that he could not legally own a gun( because he was an illegal from Asia) and 6 weeks after buying the gun he wanted me to return his money. I decided to charge him a restocking fee because after 6 weeks I had already gotten another of this same model gun. A year later the guy hacked my computer and bought me a camera (with my own money) as revenge for the 15% I charged him.
Great information there. Coming from a life spent in the internet business, i am very careful too. There are a TON of good scams out there, and when they first come out, some are pretty clever. So anything that seems to be weird... grabs my attention.

I had a "mother" that needed a laptop that i was selling once, and she had to get it fast, so she sent a FedEx box to get the time for her daughter that was starting college in few days. The account type she had required that FedEx verify the name and address, so when it came before her money she was overnighting (the person said she was afraid that Fedex might get there to pick up her laptop before the money arrived), and when FedEx gets there, you figure, "well this account has to be verified". But i sent FedEx away. The trick is that they sign up for an account that is in your name with the shipping address you provide them to send your money, it is verified when FedEx comes and gets your signature, so then you get charged for the shipping of your item too!.

Thanks for the reply. Are you forced to take the gun back if they cant own it?
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:03 AM   #6
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I have a question that probably can only be answered by a lawyer.

When you put disclaimers or legal lines or rules or whatever on your ad, are they legally binding? It would seem to me that the ones that are legally binding don't even need to be stated as gunbroker takes care of the big ones, like "Firearms must be shipped to an FFL". What C3 suggests seems like good info to have on their but I wonder about the actual legal ramifications of either having or not having that info.

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Old 11-12-2010, 12:16 PM   #7
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I am not a lawyer- Now read that again.

The LAW governing interstate sales of firearms is 18 USC 922. Things like FFLs, etc, so no, you do not HAVE to put that in the auction terms- sometimes makes things a bit more clear to the buyer, and smooths out potential bumps. Terms of payment? I said I want a US PO money order, and you sent me a check. Deal is NOT complete. I said I will not sell to residents of state of East Jersey, and you bid anyway. I'll give you a negative, and repost- deal was NOT complete.

Bidding on an auction is a legally enforceable contract- in theory. Whether you are willing to spend the time and $$$ to sue the deadbeat bidder is another matter. (Myself, I know a guy- I send him by their house. )

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Old 11-12-2010, 07:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Bidding on an auction is a legally enforceable contract- in theory. Whether you are willing to spend the time and $$$ to sue the deadbeat bidder is another matter. (Myself, I know a guy- I send him by their house. )
Can i get his contact number just in case?
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Not so much a critique as a suggestion- Wording for your auction-
1. Buyers are responsible for knowing your gun laws, and whether this item is legal in your location.
2. All firearms will be shipped only to a FFL. FFL info MUST be received before shipping.
3. I am not a FFL. Be certain that YOUR FFL is willing to accept a firearm from a non-FFL. I will include a copy of my driver's license in the package with the firearm so that your FFL can log it in.
4. Payment must be by postal money order unless prior arrangements have been made.
5. No foreign sales.....
Just noticed - i tried to give you some props for the info earlier, but it did not post. So... Thanks for yours too C3 - as always some great info!!! And i am glad to hear your not a lawyer... so you wont sue me for copyright infringement for using your terms, right?
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:30 PM   #10
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Hey theferg2000,
As far as my taking the gun back, I felt I did have to refund the largest part of the guy's money & take the gun back. I really felt like it was my job to get it back...

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