ATF visit and follow up
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ATF visit and follow up


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Old 11-23-2015, 11:49 PM   #1
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Default ATF visit and follow up

Hey Friends:

I was hoping to get some thoughts/comments/concerns on a situation I am facing. I'll admit, I am a relative newbie to this world so some criticism is welcome as well.

So to start off, I am actually a Canadian who is currently living here in the USA for at least the next three years on a work visa. Target shooting was always a hobby of mine back home, so I looked to continue that hobby here in the U.S. Now in my case, since I am legally admitted here on a non-immigrant visa, the only extra step I need to do when buying from an FFL is show proof that I am here legally (ie: my passport) and that I have an exemption document (there are a few kind), the easiest being a valid hunting license issued by a state government. So that whats that I have and do, and I have successfully gone through the NICS twice and own two handguns here in the USA. So that's my little biography.

Back in the summer, two ATF agents came to my home asking if they could talk to me about one of the handguns I had bought. I invited them in...I know some say I should not have, but I feel that since I am a basically a guest in this country, I should be more 'respectful' to law enforcement. They said that one of the handguns I had bought was part of investigation of theirs and it was part of an investigation long before I ever came into possession of it, but after talking to the FFL that I bought it from, it led them to me. They asked if they could see it and I said yes. After looking at it and writing down the serial # they also asked if they could just see the other gun I had, and I said yes and they wrote the serial # again. After that was all done, one of the agents mentioned that upon looking up my hunting licence, the one that I was using to buy the firearms, it seemed as though I had the wrong kind of hunting license. He said it wasn't that big of a deal, and suggested I just go online to my states wildlife and fisheries website and buy the correct one, so I did right on the spot. After that was all done, we shook hands and they left. No confiscation of anything and the whole encounter took 20-30 min maybe.


About 4-5 months go by, and we are now in the present day. The same agent called me and asked if he could set up a time to come and take some photos of the same firearm that was under investigation before for verification purposes. After confirming with me that I still have it, I asked "how urgent is this?", he said "well I probably can't do it this week as I have more urgent things to work on, but next week, the week after that or anytime after next week is OK really...." He said it would take no more than 5 minutes and the time was completely up to me. He also assured me that the purpose of this visit was NOT to recover the firearm. So I have made an appointment for next week to settle this. I told him if I have to cancel I will just call him and he said OK.


My question is this....do any of you think this is something to worry about? The fact that nothing happened to me at our first encounter where I believe if I was really in trouble they would have seized the weapons then and there or arrested me.....and the fact that there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency of when we meet up now would suggest that there isn't anything to worry about.......but an appointment to take pictures? sounds kind of odd. I mean we all carry smart phones now, why didn't he just do it then? And wait this long?

Anyway, sorry for the LONG story. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated!

Best Regards,
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:25 AM   #2
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Did you purchase both guns from same FFL?

I would call up a Lawyer and next time you meet up with ATF--AT LAWYER's OFFICE. No ifs, ands, buts.

Tell them to have warrant in hand when meeting, for what purpose and reason for investigating. NO, hiding secrets about what encounter about guns are about. Have lawyer help you for this. Lawyer may set up meeting with you and ATF. Don't do by yourself. Jail time could be involved with these A$$HOLES.

Your freedom depends on having someone by your side, as something doesn't smell right.

Can't say it enough. GET A LAWYER---------NOW, NOW, NOW!!!
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:55 AM   #3
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Since the ATF agents involved have behaved honestly and fairly so far I would suggest NOT referring to them as *ssholes. Let's save that for those that earn it. But I would also suggest contacting an attorney and protecting yourself just in case. No need to play hard ball and be unreasonable, but there is sense in protecting yourself and documenting the process. Just in case.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:49 AM   #4
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Yes, ATF agents fall under the "police" category. Get an attorney!!!
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:23 AM   #5
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I can understand anyone trying to avoid "Getting an Attorney." Sure, lots of attorneys will be happy to handle the meeting - for $400.00 an hour, plus other costs. Each phone call & e-mail after the meeting will also cost big time.

Don't bother with the B.S. about "Do you expect them to work for free?" My probate attorney charges $160.00 for each one-line e-mail as well as each one-minute phone call & even parking at the courthouse. Ridiculous!
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:47 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies everyone, it is appreciated. I did buy both guns from the same FFL but the transactions were about 2 months apart. Getting an attorney does make sense I think.

The thing is, when I am logically going around with this in my head certain questions come up.

When we had our first encounter back in the summer, if I was really in some kind of trouble then, why wouldn't they have seized the guns that day? They left me with two handguns this whole time? When one of the agents was inspecting the firearms the first time, he even put the mags (which were loaded) back in the gun before he left. To allow these many months to go by....?
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:51 AM   #7
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Mscomc - welcome to the forum. I read your post carefully. It does not make sense.

I could not find any mentioning of you asking the men to show their ID's. You should have had their names, and probably business cards. First thing you would do next is call the agency and verify that so-and-so were in fact their employees. And go from there.

I am sorry - there has to be more to your story. As told, it is too weird to give you any suggestions.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercator View Post
Mscomc - welcome to the forum. I read your post carefully. It does not make sense.

I could not find any mentioning of you asking the men to show their ID's. You should have had their names, and probably business cards. First thing you would do next is call the agency and verify that so-and-so were in fact their employees. And go from there.

I am sorry - there has to be more to your story. As told, it is too weird to give you any suggestions.
Thank you for your reply. Allow me to clarify. Both agents when they first came to my home did identify themselves by showing their badges/Id's and gave me their ATF business cards. I did call the agency to confirm as well. Is there any other information you feel is lacking that can add proper depth to my original post?

Thank you.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:34 AM   #9
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CardiacColt68, you CANNOT trust any government agency. Not right now. They're corrupt at this time. Fast & Furious/Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton/Bengozi and Email lies, New York Safe Act/Bloomberg, ATF raids and copying 4473's in many gun shops to gain the names/whereabouts of law abiding citizens who own guns. What has happened to ANY of these people when they're suppose to be upholding the Constitution? Not a blessed thing, because they're corrupt as the rest.

These agents KNEW they needed a warrant, but yet there they are in a man's home handling HIS GUNS. Taking serial numbers and now wanting pictures, ALL in the name of an investigation.

Federal Agents---no matter what department they're from, use the badge in their favor, and rely on the naÔve nature of people to bow/cower down in their presence.

They have the power and authority to arrest, jail and take away YOUR RIGHTS, there on the spot.

We as gun owners can't play stupid in our rights when others' are wanting to take away those rights----even if you feel they play nice.
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:09 AM   #10
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I expect that for some reason they think you are illegally trafficking guns into Canada. They have waited to see if you have the same guns after 2 months. BATFE is working with the Canadian Authorities for some reason.
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