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Old 07-13-2011, 03:21 PM   #41
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I'm not blaming the atf for anything what they are at fault for. I would just prefer it if the atf didn't exist. Somehow America managed to scrape by without them before 1972, I feel they could continue to do so and save some money in the process.

Also, you may believe me talking about the members of the atf and that is not the case. I do not know them so I can't comment on each individuals character. However, the atf as a whole is an unneeded agency. An agency that has also demonstrated unbridled corruption and illegal acts nearly since its founding... and thats just the stuff we hear about to put it as you do.


Edit: @opaww, I believe the FBI could easily do what the atf does. The FBI also has a (compared to the atf) magnificently spotless record.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:24 PM   #42
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Well said Cory and a thumbs up. But I am still loath to rid us of them because we don't know who will replace them and that group may be worse.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
I don't think I've commented in this thread?

Freefall,

My comments are not just this thread specific. I have been reading multiple threads where posters have been slamming the ATF over and over and you have to admit you have posted up your dislike for the ATF.

Most of the time I read them, ignore them if I disagree and just move on.

But there are a lot of good guys that are constantly being maligned for doing a really thankless job I guess I reached the point where someone had to step up and say something. My view is probably different then most as I also do a thankless job and a lot of people dislike and actually hate me for what I do.

But just like the ATF my job has things that we do that the public never hears about that have to be done for the publicís good. I have worked with the ATF and do we really need thousands of pounds of C4, Cemtex, rocket grenades, anthrax, Rican and hundreds of other things that are deadly coming into the US?

Oh, and yes I have stopped and seized all of the above. You may not like a part of the ATF but that does not mean the whole is bad.

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Old 07-13-2011, 03:35 PM   #44
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I think we can all agree that the ATF and many other Federal, State, County and City Law Enforcement organizations are being used by the presiding political administration to further gun control agendas through the implementation of specific regulation and selective enforcement.

It isn't the rank and file, it is the leadership (forgive the expression).

Thanks for the post scubie!
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:35 PM   #45
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I have met some good ATF agents who went out of their way to help the gun owners. Not all are enemies of freedoms, just look at the whistle blowers of the gunrunner scandle.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:43 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cory2 View Post

Edit: @opaww, I believe the FBI could easily do what the atf does. The FBI also has a (compared to the atf) magnificently spotless record.

Oh .... MY .... GOD ...

The FBI is the biggest joke of the law enforcement community. They have a great PR section and try to make everyone think they are the premier investigation agency in the world but the reality is that short of a few really great Agents the FBI could not find their a** with both hands, a detailed map and a GPS.

Over the past 24 years almost every interaction with the FBI I have had has showed how inept those Agents are. I believe they have been reading their own press releases.

Spotless record? Damn son havenít you ever heard of Ruby Ridge? After the marshal was killed the FBI was the lead agency. How about Waco, remember that? The ATF has been blamed for Waco for years that they did wrong in their initial assault on the compound and I will agree the warrants should have been served differently, but thatís 20-20 hindsight. But the siege was handled by the FBI not the ATF. I will say that the FBI commander is a friend of mine and a great Agent, however, again it could have ended in a better way, 20-20 again.

No, Iíll keep the ATF long before the FBI.

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Old 07-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #47
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I've searched back 100 posts and haven't found any mention of the ATF ? Most of my ire is reserved for Congress, the IRS, and our current executive branch. Not saying I haven't maligned the ATF, just not remembering or finding it.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:55 PM   #48
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Well DZscubbie, we can both argue points back and forth but I am not going to convince you the atf is evil and you are not going to convince me they are not, so we will have to agree to disagree

Edit: I will say this though, thanks for the service you do for this country scubbie
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzscubie View Post
Oh .... MY .... GOD ...

The FBI is the biggest joke of the law enforcement community. They have a great PR section and try to make everyone think they are the premier investigation agency in the world but the reality is that short of a few really great Agents the FBI could not find their a** with both hands, a detailed map and a GPS.

Over the past 24 years almost every interaction with the FBI I have had has showed how inept those Agents are. I believe they have been reading their own press releases.

Spotless record? Damn son havenít you ever heard of Ruby Ridge? After the marshal was killed the FBI was the lead agency. How about Waco, remember that? The ATF has been blamed for Waco for years that they did wrong in their initial assault on the compound and I will agree the warrants should have been served differently, but thatís 20-20 hindsight. But the siege was handled by the FBI not the ATF. I will say that the FBI commander is a friend of mine and a great Agent, however, again it could have ended in a better way, 20-20 again.

No, Iíll keep the ATF long before the FBI.

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Old 07-13-2011, 04:16 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
I've searched back 100 posts and haven't found any mention of the ATF ? Most of my ire is reserved for Congress, the IRS, and our current executive branch. Not saying I haven't maligned the ATF, just not remembering or finding it.
I Apologize to Freefall for maligning him and crediting to him a position that he has not voiced,,, I screwed up .. Sorry.

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