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Old 04-10-2013, 11:03 PM   #71
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No question they were looking for a sensational, dramatic news story.

But do you honestly think that they would have done what they did if they had known that the results were going to actually be a gun battle?? That people were going to be killed?
I am going to say yes. Im sure that there are people in decision making positions that do not value the lives of those involved in the conflict....or possibly it own agents/troops. Whether the reason is for the great news story and drama or just to go to war...... doesn't really matter. My .02
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:05 PM   #72
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Gello, the tapes of the "bugs" in the compound were played at the trial of the surviving members, and also at the hearings of the Senate Judiciary committee. Strangely enough, the senator that was the most critical of the FBI was Feinstein.
On Feinstein I cannot imagine a more appropriate quote than "even a blind PIG finds an acorn now and then". ("pig" not used as LE reference, since she ain't)


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...I simply cannot accept that. Regardless of political squabbles, The U.S.A. is not NAZI Germany. Even the hated BATF is not the Gestapo. I've worked with federal agents. I've had a few beers with them from time to time. I've hunted and fished with them. These people can be arrogant and overbearing at times, but they are not murderers.
I admire your faith in this country's government; mine is more limited.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:25 AM   #73
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That part I tend to agree with.

No question they were looking for a sensational, dramatic news story.

But do you honestly think that they would have done what they did if they had known that the results were going to actually be a gun battle?? That people were going to be killed?

I simply cannot accept that. Regardless of political squabbles, The U.S.A. is not NAZI Germany. Even the hated BATF is not the Gestapo. I've worked with federal agents. I've had a few beers with them from time to time. I've hunted and fished with them. These people can be arrogant and overbearing at times, but they are not murderers.
Do I believe that individual officers on the ground were "festering" for a fight... No... I don't believe that Federal or State Officers are any more interested in being shot at... or shooting people, than I am.

However... I do believe that both Waco and Ruby Ridge exploded because heavy handed tactics were ordered by people with a political agenda. I believe both were an attempt to vilify these groups as Right wing Christian Separatists and meant to be an example of what the Government is willing to do to anyone who challenges Federal Supremacy.

Both events BLEW UP in the Governments face as public opinion clearly sympathized with the Civilian Victims, not the Government or LEO's.

... and the tragic legacy of both is that they motivated to a true Whack Job named McVeigh and his murderous actions in Oklahoma City.

Despite any suspected wrong doing by Koresh or Weaver... Neither of them killed a sole before the Government decided to target them... which is why the death of every citizen in both events with the singular exception of Koresh himself falls squarely on the shoulders of the Federal Government.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:56 AM   #74
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Do I believe that individual officers on the ground were "festering" for a fight... No... I don't believe that Federal or State Officers are any more interested in being shot at... or shooting people, than I am.
Tack
I agree. I can't speak for the HQ folks making decisions, but I guarantee you the boots on the ground didn't want it.

Koresh, on the other hand....... Well.... this was his self-fulfilling prophecy. I think he did want it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #75
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In most states, a warrant can be issued based upon a simple claim that a child or children are being molested. This is an exception to the rule of reasonable cause. So they may have used that as an excuse to bypass the more demanding requirements for the gun charges.

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