Armed march on dc - Page 26
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:04 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post
I opened a reddit account and found the discussion. I started a post but I'd like it to be vetted here first. It was a team effort after all.

What I plan to post:

I've been in a couple lengthy debates about this on firearmstalk.com. After about a week, we actually came to a consensus on a few things:
  1. Kokesh is a horrible spokesman that shouldn't be entrusted with making ramen noodles, much less leading a march into DC that willing breaks open carry laws.
  2. The purpose of the march is valid but the execution is potentially harmful to the cause of second amendment preservation.
  3. A better, in fact legal, way of making a point would be to carry back powder rifles into DC for the following reasons: a) They aren't legally considered firearms so open carry laws wouldn't be violated and they might actually have a chance at marching through DC instead being stopped at the bridge by law enforcement. b) It creates a lovely irony, in that many gun-control groups insist (incorrectly) that the second amendment applies only to muskets. c) It demonstrates that “law abiding gun owners” isn't just a talking point, it's reality and public opinion does matter in the fight for constitutional rights preservation.


Thats as far as I got before I decided to bring it here for review. Feel free to make any suggestions and we'll mod it up before it posts.

Thanks for the links beast! good job
Thanks, I think it looks pretty good so far. I think we should add more but im not sure what else to add
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:08 AM   #252
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I'm not trying to convince Tack of anything, Cattledog. A chimp throwing feces? Was Tack using a lot of tact and diplomacy in his posts? You know, Cattledog, if you can't poke fun at yourself I think it says something about your character.

There was plenty of logic behind my position, but I guess it was missed so I'll rehash it again.

- You're not going to win a fight with the police and they can throw you in prison on false charges or no charges at all if they call you a terrorist- good luck getting out of it.

I do not believe Tack wants to start an armed revolt or to start shooting at people he has ideological disagreements with. However, he could very well be killed or "indefinitely detained" by our out-of-control government and lose all of his freedoms or even his life through no fault of his own. Conversing with an "alive and well" Tack is much more fun than wondering what became of Tack.

- If, by some chance you did start a revolt our opportunistic enemies may see it as a chance to attack America. A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within.

- You're going to be blamed by the media for inciting violence, even if it's blatantly obvious that the police just decided to open fire on the protesters. The police are not above inciting violence while disguised as a protester.

- Innocent civilians may be killed simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps some consider this to be acceptable losses, but I do not. Unlike the police who don't care, I want the behavior of firearms owners to be seen as above reproach to contrast our behavior with that of the police.

- You are breaking the law if you show up with a firearm vs musket and carry it into DC. Isn't the supposition of our opposition that we are criminals by virtue of the fact that we are armed? Why vindicate their position?

- I don't own or carry firearms to prove that I can or to "assert my rights"; I own them to assist with stopping anyone who attempts to physically harm my wife or children. If I'm no longer alive or out of prison to do that, who is going to do that for me?

I'm pretty sure I know what lane I'm in- the don't give the dictator the "in" he wants to take what is rightfully ours lane. Although I have already stated it I'll state it again, I think I should be able to carry my firearms anywhere I damn well please, but this course of action is not going to assist in that cause.
Ok can we drop the argument/ end the debate? If its that important can you at least pm each other? There's more important matters to discuss here. Thanks!
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:21 AM   #253
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Our system isn't as bad as we think. It's the people within the system who pervert it. Take away special interests groups and we'll be back where we need to be. Personally, I don't think We need a revolution. we need more reform, more prosecution, and more accountability. (Just my 2 cents)

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Old 05-20-2013, 12:30 AM   #254
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Our system isn't as bad as we think. It's the people within the system who pervert it. Take away special interests groups and we'll be back where we need to be. Personally, I don't think We need a revolution. we need more reform, more prosecution, and more accountability. (Just my 2 cents)
So... your cure for big govenment's problems... is more government? You may not realize it, but that's exactly what you're suggesting.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:36 AM   #255
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So... your cure for big govenment's problems... is more government? You may not realize it, but that's exactly what you're suggesting.
Big govt isn't a bad thing as long as the people who are being governed are calling the shots. In a sense, you're right, that's what I'm saying.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:40 AM   #256
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Big govt isn't a bad thing as long as the people who are being governed are calling the shots. In a sense, you're right, that's what I'm saying.
Theoretically, you're right on the big government not necessarily being bad, in and of itself. BUT, throughout history, the bigger the government (no matter who's), the more corrupt it's gotten, and it's worked exactly that very way here thus far.

I could be a fine thing indeed... but the bigger it gets, the more power it wants. The more power it gets, the bigger it gets. A never ending cycle, that, IMO, can only be broken with brute force.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:47 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286

Theoretically, you're right on the big government not necessarily being bad, in and of itself. BUT, throughout history, the bigger the government (no matter who's), the more corrupt it's gotten, and it's worked exactly that very way here thus far.

I could be a fine thing indeed... but the bigger it gets, the more power it wants. The more power it gets, the bigger it gets. A never ending cycle, that, IMO, can only be broken with brute force.
If we did that Im pretty sure more people would suffer than become prosperous. Natural selection would accelerate 10 fold. Senior citizens would die in masses, people would be forced to move into rural areas again and in the process they'd starve. Maybe after 15 years or so things would settle where they need to be but in the meantime, shi* wouldn't be that great for the majority of the people we know. I'm not a history buff but I like to think I'm a realist and I know how quickly things would go wrong without govt in the U.S. in the West Indies, not so bad. But in the states. Yeah, things would be horrible for most people. There's a chance that would happen anyway and when it does, off the the islands I go!
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #258
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Do you want to be a rich slave, or a poor free man? It's never been the job of government to provide a lifestyle for anyone.

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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by trip286
Do you want to be a rich slave, or a poor free man?
Neither. I want govt to operate the way it's supposed to under the U.S constitution no matter how big it becomes.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286
Do you want to be a rich slave, or a poor free man?
Can I be a middle-class free man who does slave labor? Hehe
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