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Old 05-17-2013, 06:30 AM   #141
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So you would let fear of what might go wrong rule the day? Things have been going wrong for decades in regard to the Second Amendment. The thing that has ruled was fear of guns and gun owners. That is what got us to where we are.

I'm not making enough sense. i'm going to bed.
No, you are making sense. To me, anyway.

But, and armed march on the nation's capitol is not the way to go about it.

Perception is reality to most people. As gun owner's and supporters of the
2A, it's not the anti's that we need to get on our side (as they most likely never will), but rather those that don't really have a side. Those that aren't against it, but are more "agnostic" if you will.

And it is going to be extremely difficult to win them over when they see 3000 armed, angry people marching on DC. Whether they see it with their own eyes, or on the news or youtube or what not, doesn't matter. It's how the perceive it that matters.

Like Squawk said, 500,000 (or even 50,000) un-armed, well organized protesters marching on DC will have a better impact on the general public. We win them over, then we will have more support to actually fight the politicians (figuratively, that is... by vote).
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:45 AM   #142
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If a time ever does come for an armed march on DC, it's not going to be in the form of a protest, but in armed conflict. One that will not end well, for either side.

It won't be a civil war, because it really won't be citizens fighting each other, with military forces on each side.

It will be a revolution. One bloodier that any in the history of mankind.

Many people like to think (myself included) that if this were to ever happen, that the military would be on our side. Well, that will not be the case. Yes, there may be members of the military that believe as we do, and are willing to fight with us, but they won't be military any more. It will be an armed insurrection going up against tanks, fighter jets, armed drones, etc., and that right there would be enough to justify the military's use of force against civilians (who, would technically be domoestic enemies).

Over the last few decades, the people have allowed politicians to trample the BOR. They kept restricting them, and no one stopped them. The people have basically made it impossible for us to use the 2A to protect us from tyranny. Anything now, no matter how noble it is, would be exactly what the FF would have been guilty of had they lost, and I'm sorry, but we are not strong enough to win in armed conflict against this tyrannical government.

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Old 05-17-2013, 10:35 AM   #143
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If a time ever does come for an armed march on DC, it's not going to be in the form of a protest, but in armed conflict. One that will not end well, for either side.

It won't be a civil war, because it really won't be citizens fighting each other, with military forces on each side.

It will be a revolution. One bloodier that any in the history of mankind.

Many people like to think (myself included) that if this were to ever happen, that the military would be on our side. Well, that will not be the case. Yes, there may be members of the military that believe as we do, and are willing to fight with us, but they won't be military any more. It will be an armed insurrection going up against tanks, fighter jets, armed drones, etc., and that right there would be enough to justify the military's use of force against civilians (who, would technically be domoestic enemies).

Over the last few decades, the people have allowed politicians to trample the BOR. They kept restricting them, and no one stopped them. The people have basically made it impossible for us to use the 2A to protect us from tyranny. Anything now, no matter how noble it is, would be exactly what the FF would have been guilty of had they lost, and I'm sorry, but we are not strong enough to win in armed conflict against this tyrannical government.
So sad but likely true. We cannot win the battle with guns this time, it will only be won with our votes and vigilance. I would certainly support a march with wooden facsimiles but not with loaded weapons. Not because we shouldnt have the right to do it, because one screw up by one overzealous marcher and were all gonna be lumped into the same category as Muslim Extremists! On the other hand, if a Gov Rep orders our Police or Military to engage patriots carrying clubs, they will only be shooting themselves in in the face!
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:22 PM   #144
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No, you are making sense. To me, anyway.

But, and armed march on the nation's capitol is not the way to go about it.


Like Squawk said, 500,000 (or even 50,000) un-armed, well organized protesters marching on DC will have a better impact on the general public. We win them over, then we will have more support to actually fight the politicians (figuratively, that is... by vote).
Something like the Tea Party protests? That seems to have petered out in its effectiveness (and it never was very effective here in CA), and it did not play too well in the liberal media, which like it or not controls the day. It did bring about some change though, but it seems to me that the movement has more or less self-destructed at this point.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #145
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Over the last few decades, the people have allowed politicians to trample the BOR. They kept restricting them, and no one stopped them. The people have basically made it impossible for us to use the 2A to protect us from tyranny. Anything now, no matter how noble it is, would be exactly what the FF would have been guilty of had they lost, and I'm sorry, but we are not strong enough to win in armed conflict against this tyrannical government.
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They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.
Patrick Henry; St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia March 23, 1775
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:46 PM   #146
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Something like the Tea Party protests? That seems to have petered out in its effectiveness (and it never was very effective here in CA), and it did not play too well in the liberal media, which like it or not controls the day. It did bring about some change though, but it seems to me that the movement has more or less self-destructed at this point.

Lost cred and petered out when the radicals took over from the true conservatives.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:52 PM   #147
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Lost cred and petered out when the radicals took over from the true conservatives.
No, it happened when the republicans turned their back on the people and joined in with the liberals bash fest of the Tea Party.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:56 PM   #148
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Lost cred and petered out when the radicals took over from the true conservatives.
I thought it happened when moderates became an accepted subgroup of the Tea Party...

I hate to tell you this, but Ron Paul has been considered the intellectual godfather of the Tea Party since 2007...
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #149
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Better to be safe than sorry. (This from a straight guy who supports gay marriage, but I'm not going to be marching on Washington, armed or not, in support of it!)
Wait, I wasn't talking about an armed gay rights movement. A couple months ago, there was a thread on here called "gay marriage" something or other, and people made complete jackasses of themselves on there. Thankfully C3 put a stop to it. I am also straight and support gay marriage. They're people, too.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:55 PM   #150
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No one is suggesting an armed conflict... It's simply an act of Civil Disobedience... and sharing your "over rated" appreciation for the power of our Government does not lend wight to your argument.

I hate to break out the math lessons... again... but it appears necessary... again.

Standing U.S. Military Forces = 1.3 Million... now recognize that it takes 3 support pukes for every single "trigger puller"... and your down to a combat effective force of 325,000.00 operators of rifles, tanks, ships, and aircraft.

Standing U.S. Law Enforcement "both State and Federal" = 1 Million... now apply the same math to separate "effective" trigger pullers, I.E. street cops and SWAT from the support pukes, and you come to 250,000.

That's a trained fighting force of roughly 575,000 ASSUMING we abandoned the rest of the planet and focused 100% of Government resources on suppressing an armed revolution against a population that exceeds 300 MILLION...

80 TO 100 MILLION OF WHICH OWN GUNS!

4 TO 5 MILLION OF WHICH HAVE MILITARY TRAINING!

Now... account for the LEO and Military "defections" from honorable Cops and Soldiers who WOULD NOT FIRE on US Citizens... and to be "realistic... assume that only 6% of the "gun owning" population would actively engage in the fight, "historical reality from out first revolution"...

...you come to numbers in the range of 500,000 uniformed thugs attempting to subjugate some 6 million untraceable patriots... unidentifiable until they choose to strike... across a land mass some 3.7 MILLION SQUARE MILES... Yeah... Find me a General at the Pentagon who wants "that fight".

Our GOOBERMINT... despite unlimited funding and the best trained and equipped military the world has ever seen... was INCAPABLE of subduing the Viet Cong, is still incapable of subduing the Taliban, and only found a measure of peace in Iraq because we decided to PAY the insurgents better than Al Quida did...

...and you reach the conclusion that ANY attempt to subjugate the US population "by force" is a NO WIN situation for the GOVERNMENT.

Don't believe that? I'm no fan of Christopher Dorner... but 1 man "off his rocker" and looking for revenge managed to tie up the majority of California Law Enforcement for over a week with no more that a couple of shootings and a facebook post.

This information is in no way meant to be a "call to arms"... on the contrary... it is intended to help everyone understand that fearing our Government makes about as much sense as fearing the "boogy man".

Overstating Government Power to justify "doing nothing"... or bashing other because they are willing to "do something"... while claiming to support liberty, yet knowing very little about which you speak, is counter productive to say the least... and plays right into the oppressors hands.

Not trying to be rude... but Hollywood BS like "CSI"...and ..."Enemy of the State"... are just that... Hollywood BS...

Our Government is both financially... and morally BANKRUPT... and if you could get them to be honest... they would admit that they know these numbers to be true... and that the ONLY WAY they maintain power is with the CONSENT of the American People.

So... please stop with the "invincible gooberment boogy man hooey"!

Tack

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Originally Posted by Mason609 View Post
If a time ever does come for an armed march on DC, it's not going to be in the form of a protest, but in armed conflict. One that will not end well, for either side.

It won't be a civil war, because it really won't be citizens fighting each other, with military forces on each side.

It will be a revolution. One bloodier that any in the history of mankind.

Many people like to think (myself included) that if this were to ever happen, that the military would be on our side. Well, that will not be the case. Yes, there may be members of the military that believe as we do, and are willing to fight with us, but they won't be military any more. It will be an armed insurrection going up against tanks, fighter jets, armed drones, etc., and that right there would be enough to justify the military's use of force against civilians (who, would technically be domoestic enemies).

Over the last few decades, the people have allowed politicians to trample the BOR. They kept restricting them, and no one stopped them. The people have basically made it impossible for us to use the 2A to protect us from tyranny. Anything now, no matter how noble it is, would be exactly what the FF would have been guilty of had they lost, and I'm sorry, but we are not strong enough to win in armed conflict against this tyrannical government.
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