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Old 07-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #81
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thanks for the info. 80% buying in other places is good, but i would hope for more like 99%.

you think i'm trying to argue with you. actually, i agree. but if no background check existed, i have no doubt violent criminals would walk into wal mart and pick up guns there....why wouldn't they?

the only point i'm trying to make: i WANT violent criminals to have to buy guns in an illegal manner. as i have said before, it adds potential charges if they commit a crime with a gun. i don't think ANY system or law will stop anyone from getting drugs or guns or prostitution or whatever else they want, if they really want it.

i think the background checks as they exist are good. i have no problem with them, but i think they should be applied to all manner of public retail with guns (internet and gun shows as well).

background checks as an infringement of 2A simply doesn't make sense to me (slight inconvenience is NOT infringement, not even by definition-it is not a limit or restriction).

UNLESS the info/check is documented! that actually frightens me as much as any of you.

if you feel background checks are useless as a tool to dissuade criminals from getting guns legally, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
the part that we gun owners are opposed to with a UBGC is the government being able to use that information as a registration of our guns. who has what, and how many. if a BGC is used to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, then we all can agree that is a good thing.

looking at the details behind a UBGC, we see it as another form of gun control, and by it's very nature is about controlling gun owners and not criminals. that is just their way of sugarcoating the real intentions behind why they are wanting to impliment a UBGC. the past has already proven that gun control doesn't and hasn't detered criminals from obtaining guns.

if a criminal is intent on getting a gun to carry out his eveil deeds, or some bat $h!t crazy lunatic to do his violent actions upon others, more laws and more hurdles that the LAC gun owner has to go through, is not going to change the outcome. it just further handicaps the law abiding gun owner, not the criminals in the least.

do you remember right after the Sandy Hook school massecre, that Obama tasked Biden with looking for and coming up with some proposals and ideas to deter such another tragic event from occuring again. and Biden did, and his own words after the fact, none of his proposals would have prevented Sandy Hook from happening.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:19 PM   #82
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It could be different in America, but with the terrorist issues we have here over the last 30 years. The police have a database with information on everyone in the country like it or not. So it just takes the police to check their computer for a full background check on an individual. It does depend on the crime whether you will be banned from owning firearms. And the law is enforced if you do brake firearms laws you will probably go to jail.



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Anyone can take up shooting, and with it the opportunity to own their own firearms, unless they are a prohibited person, this, in short, is a person who has been imprisoned for a sentence of 3 or more years. Persons who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment for 3 months or more but less than 3 years must not possess firearms until five years have passed since the date of release.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:29 PM   #83
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the part that we gun owners are opposed to with a UBGC is the government being able to use that information as a registration of our guns. who has what, and how many. if a BGC is used to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, then we all can agree that is a good thing.

looking at the details behind a UBGC, we see it as another form of gun control, and by it's very nature is about controlling gun owners and not criminals. that is just their way of sugarcoating the real intentions behind why they are wanting to impliment a UBGC. the past has already proven that gun control doesn't and hasn't detered criminals from obtaining guns.

if a criminal is intent on getting a gun to carry out his eveil deeds, or some bat $h!t crazy lunatic to do his violent actions upon others, more laws and more hurdles that the LAC gun owner has to go through, is not going to change the outcome. it just further handicaps the law abiding gun owner, not the criminals in the least.

do you remember right after the Sandy Hook school massecre, that Obama tasked Biden with looking for and coming up with some proposals and ideas to deter such another tragic event from occuring again. and Biden did, and his own words after the fact, none of his proposals would have prevented Sandy Hook from happening.
Yes. The "instant background check" is bad enough, as it results in a federal record that so-and-so bought a gun at such-and-such location on a specific date. It used to be that it was sufficient for a purchaser to fill out a 4473, and fill out a separate form for the State Police that was used to verify the record of the purchaser, but the make, model, and serial number of the gun were not on the State form. But now, the ongoing effort by the feds to create a registration of everybody's guns is sneaking in a little at a time. The only reason for registration is to facilitate confiscation.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:46 PM   #84
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I used to be a Democrat but I quit when it was hijacked by the Socialists and Communists. The Democratic Party died and should be renamed. If you are a serious gun owner and still registered as a Democrat you are living in a dream world far from reality. Chainfire, you are the one that needs to get his head out of the sand. Wake up! The Democratic Party exists in name only. You are a member of the Socialist Party pure and simple. If you look at what was Socialist Russia, the Commissars lived a lot better than the working peasants. The hierarchy of the Democratic Party are the Commissars. You are opting to be a worker, hero of the state. You will get your rightful share of poverty and the Commissars will enjoy the fruits of you labor.

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Old 07-09-2014, 03:04 AM   #85
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good point, but what is the percentage of our incarcerated that are drug related?

i expect a ludicrous amount! the "war on drugs" keeps the prison business booming!
Im sure your right which is another thread by itself. If we ended the WOD today, Im pretty certain you would see that number drop bigtime.

We cant keep going like this, we call ourselves civilized and freedom loving yet the facts bear out completely differently. They just keep making new laws seeking a perfect USA and every time they do, it just means more Americans in jail and less rights. That should have made this the safest country on the planet by now if it had any chance of working!

1) Iceland (Same as 2011)

2) New Zealand (Same as 2011; now tied with Denmark)

2) Denmark (↑ from 4)

4) Canada (↑ from 8)

5) Japan (↓ from 3)

6) Austria (Same as 2011; now tied with Ireland)

6) Ireland (↑ from 11)

8) Slovenia (↑ from 10)

9) Finland (↓ from 7)

10) Switzerland (↑ from 16)

Nope, I didnt see the USA in that top 10! Oh look, Canada is #4 even though they put 80% less per capita of their citizens in jail! Hell, The home of the Irish Republican Army is #6. Note, England is not on the list, my guess is some of the harshest firearm restrictions in the free world havent helped much! Putting more people in prison doesnt seem to equate with a safer society either!
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:35 PM   #86
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Spot on analysis I think:

http://downtrend.com/71superb/92-of-americans-support-background-checks-on-all-gun-purchases-or-not/

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snip...
Think of this as a “theory” question. In theory, 92% of those polled would favor background checks for all gun purchased. However, there is no simple background check law being proposed. The universal background check bill that died in the US Senate last year included a national gun registry.

Try asking the question like this: Do you oppose or support a universal system that requires all gun purchasers to go through a background check and includes a federal government registry of who owns guns, what guns they own, and where they live?

I think the results would be much less than 92% in support of that.
snip...
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Old 07-10-2014, 04:53 AM   #87
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When the far left opens it's mouth it's like an angry estranged wife at a divorce hearing. The facts as she sees them, and don't you dare interrupt her or the verbal lashings and ridiculously painted pictures get more unbelievable.

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Old 07-11-2014, 11:59 AM   #88
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GRRR,

Why the heavy handed moderating in this thread?

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Old 07-14-2014, 11:31 PM   #89
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Yeah, what a crock. You can't get 92% of the people to agree on what day of the week it is.

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