Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > 9 ways your firearm can be attacked in court

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2013, 10:16 PM   #21
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Texas Proud!
Posts: 24,639
Liked 17041 Times on 9853 Posts
Likes Given: 44273

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
Carry a squirt pistol. Then the attorney won't have any dumb arguments about your deadlier than deadly force.
as a LEO, what ammo are you restricted to carrying in your duty pistol, your duty rifle and shotgun if you have those as well?

are there restrictions or requirements in the ammo you can or can't use in your firearms when on duty?
__________________
Coming from the Village of the Damned.
Axxe55 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:25 PM   #22
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 2,907
Liked 2162 Times on 1199 Posts
Likes Given: 280

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe55

as a LEO, what ammo are you restricted to carrying in your duty pistol, your duty rifle and shotgun if you have those as well?

are there restrictions or requirements in the ammo you can or can't use in your firearms when on duty?
We carry office issued ammo in our duty weapons and they assume liability for the ammo in case of a lawsuit.

We have no restrictions at all on off duty carry ammo, only weapons have to be approved. But they recommend we use ammo that meets the FBI penetration standards.

Edit:After reading this again, you wanted more specifics, so; Our office usually issues us +P or +P+ JHPs for handguns. I've seen Federal and Winchester the past couple years. Shotguns usually carry the federal LE tactical 00buck. Some guys get beanbags. A few lucky ones have breaching shells, Brenneke SFM slugs, and buckshot. M4s are issued the .223 Federal T223F. I don't know what the M16 or .308 ammo is because ive never carried those.

Concern in LE community is about overpenetration of a threat causing an injury or death somewhere behind the target and then having to pay out on a civil lawsuit. No one is worried about having a "nice" bullet to hurt the bag guys with. Lethal force is met with lethal force. The more stopping power and physical damage a round has without overpenetrating the better.

Caveat: And I quote the instructor verbatim. "If you're dealing with a lethal force situation and run out of ammo and all you have is ball rounds or some stuff you just picked up from the store before work, shoot it. Stop the threat. We'll deal with the other stuff later. If you're justified in shooting him with office issue ammo you're justified in shooting him with the other stuff too. A good shoot is a good shoot no matter what rounds you end it with."
__________________
Quote:
Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 08-28-2013 at 11:53 PM.
DeltaF is offline  
Mason609 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:54 PM   #23
Deader Bears=Better Bears
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BFE,Mississippi
Posts: 19,164
Liked 5704 Times on 3348 Posts
Likes Given: 4866

Default

Well, I guess they could call my XD a glock, but that would be a low blow.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.
GANDER MOUNTAIN OF HATTIESBURG, MS IS OVERPRICED, HAS LOUSY CUSTOMER SERVICE, & SELLS BEAT UP PISTOLS TO LITTLE OLD LADIES AS "NEW". :p

orangello is offline  
texaswoodworker Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 860
Liked 313 Times on 211 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman13 View Post
Be prepared for an onslaught of "show me the court case" comments man.
You stole my thunder, 13.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot in public. People passing by won't know which one of you is the idiot.
Donn is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:08 AM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lima,Ohio
Posts: 2,453
Liked 1792 Times on 816 Posts
Likes Given: 1811

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
If a shooter finds himself/herself in court charged with murder or manslaughter he/she has big troubles:

1. The police did not believer his/her story.
2. The prosecutor did not believe his/her story.
3. The judge who ordered the defendant bound over for trial or the grand jury did not believe his/her story.

There is a very good chance the jury will not believe his/her story.

IMO: The handloads thing is much overblown despite the fact that Mas Ayoob often harps on this one. Handgun editor Sheriff Jim Wilson and a retired federal judge searched for a case where the use of handloads in a righteous shooting made any difference. They could not find one such case.
Not always true. Remember the police believed Zimmerman's story.
__________________
rjd3282 is online now  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:18 AM   #26
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 2,907
Liked 2162 Times on 1199 Posts
Likes Given: 280

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd3282

Not always true. Remember the police believed Zimmerman's story.
In today's politically charged and sue happy society, law enforcement is sometimes forced to make an arrest and let the system do its job in proving the innocent to be innocent. This is now everyday practice for sex crimes cases and becoming common for self defense cases as well. I don't like it or agree with it, but it is the truth.

Rest assured, however, that no police officer is going to press charges on you because you used a semi automatic, JHP, flashlight or knife unless those things are illegal in your state. The issue in self defense is almost always the actions and almost NEVER the instrument.

Now attorneys on the other hand, will come up with all kinds of dumb crap in court. Use a semi and you're a cop wanna be, use a revolver and maybe you're an out of control cowboy living your western movie fantasies out. Carry 2 flashlights and you're a cop wanna be. Don't carry a flashlight and maybe you couldn't see whether the guy was really pointing a weapon at you because it was so dark. They will grasp at anything and everything and will ALWAYS find something you did "wrong" to throw the jury off scent. That's their job. Yours is to be able to explain why you as a normal person did what you did.

Don't limit your load out because of fear of what an attorney could say about it in court or you'll end up butt naked.
__________________
Quote:
Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 08-29-2013 at 12:30 AM.
DeltaF is offline  
opaww Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:32 AM   #27
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit,mi
Posts: 2,356
Liked 527 Times on 331 Posts
Likes Given: 122

Default

Remember, even OJ got off.

Seriously a handful of cases that have other extraneous facts?

Oh and presented by an article that is nothing more than a sales pitch?

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

__________________
partdeux is offline  
Mason609 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 06:53 AM   #28
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mason609's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Quincy,MA
Posts: 1,277
Liked 530 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 2880

Default

Sorry, but 2 of those "cases" involved late 80's to extremely early 90's forensic tech. While forensics had moved out of it's infancy by that time, it was still a toddler. There are many factors as to why forensics wasn't used as much as it is today, in the courts.

While now in it's teenage years, there has become a more commonality to it: street cops (where it was once mainly just detectives) now know what to do and what not to do at a crime scene, there's an established collection method, as well as testing - and a narrower interpretation of the results (you know, like real science).

__________________

Insert witty comment here......


Veritas Aequitas

Vincit Omnia Veritas

Vincere est Vivere

Mason609 is online now  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 07:13 AM   #29
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mason609's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Quincy,MA
Posts: 1,277
Liked 530 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 2880

Default

Something to consider:

It is the job of the prosecutor to get a guilty verdict. So they will use anything and everything they can (in most cases, legally) to get that conviction.

It really doesn't matter what kind of gun you use, it doesn't matter what color it is and it certainly doesn't matter what type of ammo you use.

You can have a nickel plated .45 with ivory hand grips, with factory loaded ball ammo (not a "scary black gun" and no HP) and still the prosecutor could bring up your choices for why that gun, why that ammo...

As was stated earlier, if you have a decent defense attorney, you'll be okay, no matter how stupid or gun hating the jury is.

__________________

Insert witty comment here......


Veritas Aequitas

Vincit Omnia Veritas

Vincere est Vivere

Mason609 is online now  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:20 PM   #30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 557
Liked 277 Times on 164 Posts
Likes Given: 456

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opaww View Post
All I see in all this is the anti's using anything they can use to make gun owners and the gun out as the bad guy
I can agree with this. If you have to defend yourself and the prosecutor has an anti-gun bias I can see him / her using any arguement to try to make the defendant look like a blood thirsty neanderthal.
__________________
Warrior1256 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
I was attacked by a Polar Bear!!! Dearhunter The Club House 3 11-21-2012 11:49 PM
Friend Helps Woman Being Attacked USMC-03 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 29 12-15-2010 09:47 PM
Daughter was attacked today mrm14 The Club House 26 10-15-2009 04:51 AM
Who have you verbally attacked lately? MrKimber The Club House 13 10-02-2009 07:39 PM
My duty section in Iraq getting attacked by Mortars SGT-MILLER The Club House 4 09-22-2008 02:48 AM