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Old 03-26-2014, 07:19 AM   #121
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What are everybody's thought about ordering paperweights from out of state?
Well, I imagine that if we can set up a group buy we might be able to get a little deal on some 80% lowers. Ares does not have the plastic EP Lowers (those were confiscated) but they do have a pretty good stock of other ones available. Personally I am interested in an 80% AR10 http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/TACMHDM8

The thing is that you need the jig to be able to machine it accurately. The jig is $150, so what I would like to do would be to get my 80% AR10 and buy a jig, then send that jig around to other members who have the 80% AR10 to machine. Each one of us would pay something like $10 towards the purchase of the jig and so we can spread out the cost. Anybody wrecks the jig and they have to pay more.

We could do the same thing with the 80% AR15 too.

What do you all say? Heck, if nothing else the money goes towards helping Ares fight the good fight!
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:35 AM   #122
disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED...
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Bingo, Dr. Football. The BATF has been out of control since they got the F designation.



The first person murdered by the BATF was a MD resident, paralyzed from the waist down, sitting in his wheel chair with a cap and ball revolver in his lap; when the BATF kicked the front door down. A convicted felon and paid BATF informer who had an axe to grind lied to his handlers.

I remember reading something about that, Alasqr. I think that might be my third or fourth book.....we shall see


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Old 03-26-2014, 02:01 PM   #123
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With that being known, I would prefer to walk in, pay cash and walk out anonymously. But I am still ordering an 80% from Ares once this new encryption is implemented.
Just out of curiosity...what makes us think that encryption will protect us? Yeah, yeah, the law. Can a child pornographer encrypt his photos, and be protected? And, the ATF apparently raided Ares in spite of the fact that they had a restraining order. It sounds like the court system/Judge was complicit in this. Is is a stretch to think they will/could get the key to the encryption program from someone?

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Well, I imagine that if we can set up a group buy we might be able to get a little deal on some 80% lowers. Ares does not have the plastic EP Lowers (those were confiscated) but they do have a pretty good stock of other ones available.
I am all over that. Count me in, though I'm interested in an AR15 lower. I do plan on machining without a jig, though. I think I have a milling machine available to me. With the proper dimensions provided, I think it could easily be done. I have been meaning to speak to Ares about it. VD, something else to talk about later, put it on the list.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:53 PM   #124
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Just out of curiosity...what makes us think that encryption will protect us? Yeah, yeah, the law. Can a child pornographer encrypt his photos, and be protected? And, the ATF apparently raided Ares in spite of the fact that they had a restraining order. It sounds like the court system/Judge was complicit in this. Is is a stretch to think they will/could get the key to the encryption program from someone?
Yes a child porn case when to SCOTUS over this, ill find a link. Short version is you cannot be compelled to provide your password.

Public encryption algorithms exist that have no backdoors, you forget your password its gone... until the capability to crack the encryption becomes realistic.
Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Boucher

My mistake, didn't go to SCOTUS. The guy showed the border agent his laptop with child porn, later ICE was unable to decrypt. Rulings went both ways but the final ruling said because he had already showed agents his documents that he couldn't hide by encryption and was forced to provide an unencrypted version to authorities.

Ares could argue that they never cooperated and might have better luck.

Bottom line, you can't be compelled to provide your password but you can be compelled to provide an unencrypted version depending on the circumstances.
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Last edited by Yunus; 03-26-2014 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Clarifying facts
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:13 PM   #125
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Just out of curiosity...what makes us think that encryption will protect us? Yeah, yeah, the law. Can a child pornographer encrypt his photos, and be protected? And, the ATF apparently raided Ares in spite of the fact that they had a restraining order. It sounds like the court system/Judge was complicit in this. Is is a stretch to think they will/could get the key to the encryption program from someone?
Unfortunately yes, encryption can be used to evil ends. That is the reality of it. While I am not willing to accept evil, that does not mean that I am willing to accept the oppression of my rights so that evil might suffer for it. Might. That is the key word here. The reality is that with every abrogation of our freedoms, the Government (read: BATFE) will use that to persecute the easy prey, which means people like you and me (and Ares Armor) while there might be a handful more child pornographers caught as well.

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I am all over that. Count me in, though I'm interested in an AR15 lower. I do plan on machining without a jig, though. I think I have a milling machine available to me. With the proper dimensions provided, I think it could easily be done. I have been meaning to speak to Ares about it. VD, something else to talk about later, put it on the list.

Yeah, lets do this!
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:13 PM   #126
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gee, haven't these guys ever heard of the 4th amendment?
I am sure they have heard of the 4th, but probably do not think it applies to them.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:18 PM   #127
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Yes a child porn case when to SCOTUS over this, ill find a link. Short version is you cannot be compelled to provide your password.

Public encryption algorithms exist that have no backdoors, you forget your password its gone... until the capability to crack the encryption becomes realistic.
Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Boucher

My mistake, didn't go to SCOTUS. The guy showed the border agent his laptop with child porn, later ICE was unable to decrypt. Rulings went both ways but the final ruling said because he had already showed agents his documents that he couldn't hide by encryption and was forced to provide an unencrypted version to authorities.

Ares could argue that they never cooperated and might have better luck.

Bottom line, you can't be compelled to provide your password but you can be compelled to provide an unencrypted version depending on the circumstances.
Bottom line: Nothing is 100% protected from being uncovered by the Government, regardless of our Constitution and laws. Buyers beware.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:44 PM   #128
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Bottom line: Nothing is 100% protected from being uncovered by the Government, regardless of our Constitution and laws. Buyers beware.
"One time pad" is the only perfect encryption I know of right now but you can encrypt things and keep them from the government. The weak link won't be the encryption but your willingness to keep it encrypted.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:24 AM   #129
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"One time pad" is the only perfect encryption I know of right now but you can encrypt things and keep them from the government. The weak link won't be the encryption but your willingness to keep it encrypted.
Yeah. I think Tom Clancy was using that a couple of decades ago.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:52 PM   #130
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The ATF responded again. They say "clarified" but I disagree.

http://blog.predatorbdu.com/2014/04/atf-clarification-letter-to-ep-armory.html

Basically they are admiting the lower itself may have been built around the "biscuit"(the white plastic) but because they are different materials and clearly identify where the cavity should be, its a firearm.

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