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Old 03-25-2014, 02:15 AM   #111
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I am not so sure that Ares "promised to turn the lowers over" as they acknowledged that the BATFE was informing them that they would be taken by force if they were not turned over voluntarily, whereupon Ares sought the restraining order which the BATFE promptly found a judge who was willing to over-rule that order. So now that you have an idea as to what both sides are saying which side is right? I would be willing to bet that the conversation was not recorded for posterity.

In any event, if I owned a liquor store and the BATFE came in and said that I was in violation of the law for selling hops, barley, malt and water in a box and said they were going to come by in a couple of days and confiscate my inventory of ingredients for making beer along with my customer information. I would say "OK. See you in a couple of days." Whereupon I would make haste for the Courthouse in order to get that restraining order before they showed up. There is nothing deceptive about it at all. I am quite certain that any attorney would agree that it is not unreasonable not illegal to "agree" to something with the full intention of seeking out other options.

I am not sure at this point but if I were to guess I would say that the BATFE was probably overstepping their authority simply because that is their typical approach. We will find out eventually though.

The only dog I have in this fight is the Constitution.
if i remember my history lessons, judges interpret the law, and LE enforces the law. getting a restraining order allows the judge to make a determination if the actions by LE are justified and legal. when they went around or disregarded the RO, they were simply bypassing the legal steps to what is construed as the basis of foundation of the legal system. IOW's the BATF never had any plans in playing by the rules. i think this has been clearly proven many other times in the past.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:13 AM   #112
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This agency has been at this stuff for as long as any of us can remember. Instead of "Infighting" about what we should carry,a new if we are to carry Concealed or Openly, we should ALL be Standing up against Gov't's unlawful and un constitutional actions....


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Old 03-25-2014, 11:46 AM   #113
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All of the above is correct.Ares Arms alson had a huge billboard showing an Assault style weapon. Talk about high profile. I believe the BATFE does have a letter with a description of what constitutes as a firearm which does need to be registered.
I don't have a lot of experience dealing with the BATFE but recently on this and other forums I have seen letters from them stating that something is not a firearm due to certain items still being required to be accomplished to complete the firearm, however they always put a statement that "This only applies to the example submitted to BATFE" or something of that nature that makes it clear they are only stating that what they were sent was not a firearm and not saying, X Y Z makes it a firearm or not. They don't want to make a blanket statement like that because someone will find a way to make a 99.9% lower that's fails to meet some criteria of theirs and is therefore not a firearm.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:57 PM   #114
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Instead of "Infighting" about what we should carry,a new if we are to carry Concealed or Openly, we should ALL be Standing up against Gov't's unlawful and un constitutional actions....
Bingo, Dr. Football. The BATF has been out of control since they got the F designation.

The first person murdered by the BATF was a MD resident, paralyzed from the waist down, sitting in his wheel chair with a cap and ball revolver in his lap; when the BATF kicked the front door down. A convicted felon and paid BATF informer who had an axe to grind lied to his handlers.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:52 PM   #115
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The BATF could be much more productive conducting legal and illegal raids in Oakland. The Gang bangers own the city at night. The police will not even go into certain areas unless called, without a lot of back up, including SWAT. I am just saying.

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Old 03-26-2014, 01:00 AM   #116
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The BATF could be much more productive conducting legal and illegal raids in Oakland. The Gang bangers own the city at night. The police will not even go into certain areas unless called, without a lot of back up, including SWAT. I am just saying.
This is quite true. I work in Oakland from time to time and have heard gunshots close by with no police response.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:20 AM   #117
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Just got this information from Ares:

Quote:
Ares Armor - Encryption

5th amendment protection for encryption

OCEANSIDE, CA - Due to the recent events involving the ATF and their search and seizure of our computer systems we are taking leaping steps in the way we protect our customer’s information.





We are bringing in a team of computer witch doctors to encrypt our systems and ensure that all information is as secure as technology currently allows.
Modern encryption methods more often than not are secure enough that even a super computer can take more than a human lifetime to crack, if ever. 256 to 512 bit encryption using accelerated modern algorithms are nearly impossible to crack without the encryption key.

With two recent court cases it has been found that a password secured computer or software can be included in an investigation; however, an encryption key is protected under the 5th amendment.
Due to the fact that using modern accelerated algorithms scatters the information on the hard drive and the encryption key used to unscramble it equates to “translating” in the courts eyes. Therefore, ones right against self-incrimination protects the right to encrypt data and not be compelled to provide the encryption key.

The team we are bringing in will remain un-named to further protect the privacy of our customers as well as themselves; however, they have come highly recommended from over a dozen companies and have a track record superior to almost anyone in their industry.

With that being known, I would prefer to walk in, pay cash and walk out anonymously. But I am still ordering an 80% from Ares once this new encryption is implemented.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:52 AM   #118
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Just got this information from Ares:




With that being known, I would prefer to walk in, pay cash and walk out anonymously. But I am still ordering an 80% from Ares once this new encryption is implemented.
I agree. I was a bit leery about getting an 80% lower, but the fine folk here changed my mind.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:32 AM   #119
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What are everybody's thought about ordering paperweights from out of state?

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Old 03-26-2014, 07:04 AM   #120
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Default The BATFE Must GO as it is a Useless Agency.

I Mean it. The Civil War II Kick Off will eliminate the Useless FAT in our Useless Government. OBlabber and his minions will be the instigators.

Then You can own any weapon or accessory that you can get. You will need them.

I find it Ridiculous to pay some Ahole at BATFE a $200 bend me over FEE every time I want or NEED some restricted item. Will Not do it ever and I think that those who do are stupid, Why? Because they will be the first place confiscators come.
Yes, I am MAD to my Core and ready for WAR again, so my offspring may be better off if We the People clean out our Gov. of Greedy Corrupt Tyrants.

We all know that the WHOLE Congress and Senate are Guilty of TREASON, they will pay, and payday is not far away, there would be no Obama or GWB or any of the other useless lip flappers that have been Installed, not voted in for President IF,IF, The Congress and Senators had done their jobs according to the Constitution OUR Country would Not be in the Mess it is now, there would be No Obammer now as he would have been Impeached long ago, Holder too-- GONE.

Ok, Rant is over, that has been wanting out for some time, I believe many of you are of like mind, Thanks.

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