The 4th Amendment - Is it applicable to Gun Owners too? - Page 2
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The 4th Amendment - Is it applicable to Gun Owners too?


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Old 03-18-2014, 08:17 AM   #11
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:30 AM   #12
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No-knock warrants have little to do with officer safety. If the police feel that they are likely to encounter armed resistance to serving a warrant, then they should arm and prepare themselves accordingly.

If someone is standing behind the door, has a surveillance system, guard dog, etc then no-knock is simply state-sponsored B&E.

I'm tired of all the incessant whining about officer safety. If you're that worried about your safety then find work elsewhere. Nobody asked anyone to be a police officer or soldier, its all volunteer and freely assuming obligation.

The presumption should be that any job that involves using firearms is not "safe", for those who ascribe to that mother of mythical concepts, and therefore whatever you do is at your own risk. If you're not prepared to risk what you're being asked to risk, then don't volunteer.

If every LEO in the country quit tomorrow, the US would be a violent place for about a week, maybe a month, after which all the gang bangers, rapists, murderers, and thieves would be piled up on the scrap heap of stupid decision making.

Yes, life would be so terrible not having to feed, house, and provide medical care for the refuse of our society. And then we could move forward, not worrying about who will come "save" you from your own stupid decision making. Who knows, the threat of being killed and Mom and Dad not showing up to break up the fight might cause people to treat each other a little better or suffer the consequences. What an awful idea!

Rights don't exist on inked paper, no matter how fancy the wording or how old the parchment. You have rights to what you're willing to kill and die for and that's about it. If everyone else wants to pretend along with or without the threat of use of force, they will. If not, well, there's plenty of history for anyone who can read.


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Old 03-18-2014, 10:16 AM   #13
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I'm amazed at the people who are posting how terrible for people to have their 4th amendment right being violated but are ok with people having their 2nd amendment right violated. I know, I'm a troll.
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:35 PM   #14
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No knocks are the spawn of the drug war and another citizen has been shot by police for being armed and startled in a place he had every right to be armed.

The LEO excuses must end. If it's to dangerous to knock, or call ahead, then call the SWAT Team, surround the residence, and give the "perceived" threat a chance to surrender peacefully.

If he shoots, or comes out shooting, then all bets are off, do what needs to be done, no one has a problem with officers defending themselves from attack but I have a HUGE problem with officers attacking and killing citizens, claiming self defense and whining about officer safety.

If one of my troops had whined about "soldier safety" I'd have PT'd the little slug until he puked.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post
Arguably the no-knock warrant created a scenario where police would be more likely injured.

If my kid were to have illegal drugs in my house without my knowing it and the police knocked on the door with a warrant that specifically stated what they are looking for "particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" as required by the 4th, I would allow the search of my son's person and possessions as described. If they found evidence of drugs and he were arrested I would consider not interfering.

Likelihood of that scenario happening? Oh, just about as good as the court upholding our 4th Amendment rights in the first place.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
No-knock warrants have little to do with officer safety. If the police feel that they are likely to encounter armed resistance to serving a warrant, then they should arm and prepare themselves accordingly.

If someone is standing behind the door, has a surveillance system, guard dog, etc then no-knock is simply state-sponsored B&E.

I'm tired of all the incessant whining about officer safety. If you're that worried about your safety then find work elsewhere. Nobody asked anyone to be a police officer or soldier, its all volunteer and freely assuming obligation.

The presumption should be that any job that involves using firearms is not "safe", for those who ascribe to that mother of mythical concepts, and therefore whatever you do is at your own risk. If you're not prepared to risk what you're being asked to risk, then don't volunteer.

If every LEO in the country quit tomorrow, the US would be a violent place for about a week, maybe a month, after which all the gang bangers, rapists, murderers, and thieves would be piled up on the scrap heap of stupid decision making.

Yes, life would be so terrible not having to feed, house, and provide medical care for the refuse of our society. And then we could move forward, not worrying about who will come "save" you from your own stupid decision making. Who knows, the threat of being killed and Mom and Dad not showing up to break up the fight might cause people to treat each other a little better or suffer the consequences. What an awful idea!

Rights don't exist on inked paper, no matter how fancy the wording or how old the parchment. You have rights to what you're willing to kill and die for and that's about it. If everyone else wants to pretend along with or without the threat of use of force, they will. If not, well, there's plenty of history for anyone who can read.
What gets to me is police are always talking about how dangerous their job is. Yet, in the list of the most dangerous jobs police officers are not even in the top 100. Most officers will never draw their weapon in self defense, much less be forced to use it.

The millions of people who have jobs that are far more dangerous than a police officer are lucky if the job site is up to OSHA standards. Far more highway workers are killed on the job than police officers. Yet, most local police departments won't put any empty car with the lights flashing in a work zone. Officers tend to patrol open areas where they can write a lot of tickets instead of protecting road workers.

I usually get at least a couple roadside grass planting jobs every year. I had poles with flags installed on my tractors. A HP trooper said I couldn't put the poles down because they impede traffic. I told the officer point blank, "If I can't protect my own workers you need to stay here to protect them." I ended filing a complaint against the officer. I have no idea what became of the complaint other than the officer in question stays away from my jobs.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
Often... I feel that no knocks have more to do with the adrenalin rush LEO's are looking for than destruction of evidence or officer safety. These are simply convenient excuses to justify thug behavior.

I shed no tears for any badge that falls conducting a no knock in the United States.

...and I've quit giving to the Fallen Officers fund because I can no longer be sure the fallen cop didn't have it coming.

Sure enough our resident apologist will chime in to vilify my position without ever giving a thought to the fact that it's THIER actions causing law abiding citizens to feel this way about a profession we "used to" respect.

Tack
You would expect a LEO to be a little smarter than a BG and want to defend for his own life regardless of what he might be told to do. Unfortunately there is no law against being stupid. And you can't fix it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by towboater View Post
I'm a law abiding citizen. There is no reason the law should be breaking in my door. Therefor I would assume they are bad people intent on doing me and my family harm.
If you DON'T assume this you may be dead before realizing you were right in your assumption.

And these actions by LE support the thoughts that they are treating everyone as a law-breaking criminal - which is wrong.


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Last edited by wittmeba; 03-18-2014 at 03:48 PM.
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