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Old 09-21-2007, 11:51 PM   #21
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Thanks but I'm too trustworthy.
Does that mean you owe a particular lobby?
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:09 AM   #22
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Does that mean you owe a particular lobby?
Nope.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:11 AM   #23
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Maybe you'd better brush up on some European history.
I should have been more specific. There are no cultures (of significant stature) that are around today that continue to engage in expansionism through violent conquest as Islam continues to do and has done for more than 1,200 years. All other major cultures today have reconciled themselves to peaceful coexistence. Please do not presume to lecture me on history.

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My stand with Hillary is that she and the Democrats are one and the same with the Republicans. With the exception of a few social issues, the two parties are identical. Those social issues, like abortion, are used constantly to divide and conquer the populace.

As for our "friends", remember this. "Nations don't have friends. Nations have interests." -- Winston Churchill. Take care of Number One for a change.
Ah. While I will agree that neither Republican nor Democrat meet our requirements for viable parties, there is a difference between the two. At least the Republicans do not advocate surrender, defeatism and socia1ism. (Though they do advocate record-spending, curtailing of liberties and pursuit of poor strategies, which is arguably just as distasteful.)

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In addition, I would treat domestic enemies with the rule of law.
There's the rub. The law is fairly vague in defining treason, sedition and sabotage as evidenced by the profound lack of charges brought to those who have leaked secrets, fomented dissent and overtly fought against the U.S. How will that be reconciled?

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Finally, for Dr. Paul, he would be more successful than you think. How would you like to be one of the Congresscritters being embarrassed in public for not upholding your oath to the Constitution? That is what will happen with Paul in office. On the other hand, the general population is too damn dumb to understand the proper role of government.
As you astutely point out, the general population, sadly, appears too damned dumb to grasp the meaning of the Constitution. Literally dozens of people I've had the misfortune of speaking with have virtually no grasp of it or of the Bill of Rights.

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"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State." -- James Madison, Federalist No. 45
Sounds great. I'm all for it.

Without the cognizant will and understanding of the (armed) people behind it, however, it means little.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:36 AM   #24
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Congress did not declare war. In fact, they haven't done so since June 1942 when Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary entered on the side of the Axis. I work on Fort Stewart. We have over 400 memorials for soldiers that have given their lives for UN Security Council Resolutions. That is nothing short of criminal. Can you say "high crimes and misdemeanors"? As for Dr. Paul, he votes strictly in accordance with the US Constitution and has always done so. In fact, he sponsored a Bill (twice) to go after bin Laden by having Congress issue a Letter of Marque and Reprisal - mentioned in Article I, Section 8 and for the second time, it will die in committee because nobody else inside The Beltway cares about their oaths to the Constitution.
Maybe I'm missing something. I'm still trying to figure out how this is a response to what I said.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:49 AM   #25
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At least the Republicans do not advocate surrender, defeatism and socia1ism. (Though they do advocate record-spending, curtailing of liberties and pursuit of poor strategies, which is arguably just as distasteful.)
Both "major" parties have surrendered the US Constitution in its original intent. Both advocate so******m. You must have missed out on the Medicare Drug fiasco, the FEMA debit cards, No Child Left Behind, billions going overseas in foreign aid. All are funded by redistribution of wealth but since the GOP does it, it's OK. Because the GOP does it, that makes it "conservative".

"Corrupted by wealth and power, your government is like a restaurant with only one dish. They've got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side. But no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen." -- Huey Long

The US government has adapted all 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. But since the GOP goes along for the ride, it's OK. That being said. defeatism is just another GOP talking point and makes you a one-issue voter.

'Inability to tell good from evil is the greatest worry of man's life." – Cicero

BTW, I appreciate this great debate we are having.
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:04 AM   #26
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Maybe I'm missing something. I'm still trying to figure out how this is a response to what I said.
I gave an example of his reasoning for his stance on the war with some historical facts and some of my own observations.
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:16 AM   #27
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I gave an example of his reasoning for his stance on the war with some historical facts and some of my own observations.
Gotcha. My thing is that I don't like business as usual, but I don't like cut and run either. Overall though, I agree with R.P.'s stance on most everything else.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:05 AM   #28
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Gotcha. My thing is that I don't like business as usual, but I don't like cut and run either. Overall though, I agree with R.P.'s stance on most everything else.
Cut and run is just another GOP talking point. A constitutional limited government with a non-interventionist, aka armed neutrality, foreign policy is what our Founding Fathers gave us. They gave us a Republican form of government and not one created by the globalist United Nations.

Last week Congress voted to raise their limit on borrowing - again. The National Debt is now over $9 trillion with another $60 in promised entitlements. It's high time to get things under control and to take care of ourselves and our posterity for a change.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:15 AM   #29
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Cut and run is just another GOP talking point. A constitutional limited government with a non-interventionist, aka armed neutrality, foreign policy is what our Founding Fathers gave us. They gave us a Republican form of government and not one created by the globalist United Nations.

Last week Congress voted to raise their limit on borrowing - again. The National Debt is now over $9 trillion with another $60 in promised entitlements. It's high time to get things under control and to take care of ourselves and our posterity for a change.
I agree with you for the most part, but the fact of the matter is that our country uses oil. As long as we use oil, we will have to be involved in Middle Eastern politics and will have to put up with the bs that goes with it. I don't think we should have ever gone into Iraq, but now that we are there we have limited options. We can completely pull out, destabilize the area even more, and hurt our already ailing economy in the process. We can drag this crap out for the next eternity, lose more of our best people, and wrack up more debt. Those are the two options we have been given. In my opinion, the politicians should shut their mouths and let the military do it's thing. Politicians are there to flap their traps and the military is there to kick ass. If the military was left to it's business the whole mess could be cleared up in no time.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:58 AM   #30
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I agree with you for the most part, but the fact of the matter is that our country uses oil. As long as we use oil, we will have to be involved in Middle Eastern politics and will have to put up with the bs that goes with it. I don't think we should have ever gone into Iraq, but now that we are there we have limited options. We can completely pull out, destabilize the area even more, and hurt our already ailing economy in the process. We can drag this crap out for the next eternity, lose more of our best people, and wrack up more debt. Those are the two options we have been given. In my opinion, the politicians should shut their mouths and let the military do it's thing. Politicians are there to flap their traps and the military is there to kick ass. If the military was left to it's business the whole mess could be cleared up in no time.
Nobody is saying that we can't trade with them. We just don't need to be involved in their political issues or do any nation building. Do you remember this?

"Let me tell you what else I'm worried about: I'm worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our view of the military is for our military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place." -- George W. Bush, Nov. 7, 2000 in Chattanooga, TN.

This was the night before the 2000 election.

“When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader.” -- Plato

“There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” -- General Smedley Butler
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