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Old 08-22-2013, 07:52 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by mahall

If you move it down to 18!! Don't be surprised to hear the 16 year old protest "why not me" come on guys do you really want the average 18 year old playing with guns!! We all been that age!! When we found a hobby we obsessed with it!! Example "cars" most of us spent endless hours obsessing on how to make it better and faster!! Teenagers struggle with moderation and maturity, especially males!! As far as background checks that doesn't hold water either!! Most are two young to have a criminal past!! Let our kids enjoy there youth!! They can find plenty of trouble without the help of owning or carrying a gun, that's for sure!!
(For the record I don't have any faith in the 18 y/o argument for just about anything. I think its a superficial number pulled out of thin air simple for convenience, with very little fact to support it. But that's not an argument for here.)

I will be the first to admit I obsess with things. And still do. I'm obsessed with my family, obsessed with my dogs, obsessed with certain shows on TV, and yes obsessed with firearms. It hasn't done any harm in my life, because I am able to balance out all my obsessions with my necessary things which I am not obsessed with (work and chores for example).

I enjoy my adulthood and part of the reason is because of firearms. I know I would have enjoyed my youth more if I had been able to go shooting with my dad more.

Anyway, I'm tired as its 1am here now. I'm going to sleep. G'night, all.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:34 AM   #62
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Rather hypocritical to say 18 years old is to immature to drink or own handguns, but it is ok for them to die in war and vote. If they are that immature then don't let them vote and keep them out of the military until they turn 21.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mason609 View Post
But, who decides what the standards are for proving maturity and responsibility?
Exactly, who decides that? From your posts, it would seem like you'd like to.

What the few does should not effect the majority. The VAST majority of 18-20 year olds will not go to jail for violent crimes. Most won't ever go to jail. There is no reason to stop the good ones from buying and carrying handguns.

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Originally Posted by mahall View Post
If you move it down to 18!! Don't be surprised to hear the 16 year old protest "why not me" come on guys do you really want the average 18 year old playing with guns!! We all been that age!! When we found a hobby we obsessed with it!! Example "cars" most of us spent endless hours obsessing on how to make it better and faster!! Teenagers struggle with moderation and maturity, especially males!! As far as background checks that doesn't hold water either!! Most are two young to have a criminal past!! Let our kids enjoy there youth!! They can find plenty of trouble without the help of owning or carrying a gun, that's for sure!!
The difference between 16 and 18 is that at 18, you are a legal adult. At 16, your not.

Obsessing on cars? Are you trying to tell me that there aren't MILLIONS of people over 30 who do just that? Ever been to a car show? How about a race track?

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Rather hypocritical to say 18 years old is to immature to drink or own handguns, but it is ok for them to die in war and vote. If they are that immature then don't let them vote and keep them out of the military until they turn 21.
I agree with this. Either your responsible, or your not.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:55 PM   #64
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Rather hypocritical to say 18 years old is to immature to drink or own handguns, but it is ok for them to die in war and vote. If they are that immature then don't let them vote and keep them out of the military until they turn 21.
^^^^
A pure and simple truth.

They are old enough to put a target on their back after being shipped off to some country for whatever reason they choose to use and use a full auto weapon once they get there,. But by all means don't let them enjoy other rights adults have.

Sorry kids but you can not have it both ways. They are able or not. And if they are not then do not allow them in the military. I always thought it was really messed up a kid and join the armed forces at 18 and can be on leave for a theater of war but couldn't buy a drink.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:14 PM   #65
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^^^^
A pure and simple truth.

They are old enough to put a target on their back after being shipped off to some country for whatever reason they choose to use and use a full auto weapon once they get there,. But by all means don't let them enjoy other rights adults have.

Sorry kids but you can not have it both ways. They are able or not. And if they are not then do not allow them in the military. I always thought it was really messed up a kid and join the armed forces at 18 and can be on leave for a theater of war but couldn't buy a drink.
This. Absolutely.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:54 PM   #66
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Does the 2nd Amendment forbid the States from enacting gun control?

Yes, it is a federal Constitutional right, and since it is in the Constitution it can't be regulated by the states under the 10th amendment

Does it protect ALL guns (everything from black powder to full auto MGs)

Yes, "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" this is clearly not talking about hunting rifles, it's talking about military arms, therefore all arms are protected.

Does it protect both open and concealed carry?

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" we have the absolute infinite right to bear arms

Does it make background checks and gun registration illegal?

I would say it infringes upon someone's rights to make them have to go through the process of registration. And as far as background checks, although I'm not 100% against them, I do think that since it is "the right of the people" I think a background does infringe on the right of the people as it is the right of every individual.

Does it cover all the accessories that go with guns such as magazines, scopes, ect.

Yes, "shall not be infringed"

Does it ban ALL anti gun laws?

Yes it does. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" therefore all laws that infringe on the right to keep and bear arms violates the Constitution.

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:03 PM   #67
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I think a parent/ adult should be able to restrict a dependent under their care but the government shouldnt be involved with such things. Goes against most of my working brain cells to put an age on maturity based upon things that dont come from just getting older by a year, Wisdom, resourcefulness, responsibility and knowledge. I would have no huge problem drawing the line at 16 to be able to separate from the rules of your parents but only if youve actually left the house and are supporting yourself.

The govt should not be involved with the assignment of rights, only ensuring everyone has all of them un-impinged and un-infringed.

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Old 08-24-2013, 06:11 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38
I think a parent/ adult should be able to restrict a dependent under their care but the government shouldnt be involved with such things. Goes against most of my working brain cells to put an age on maturity based upon things that dont come from just getting older by a year, Wisdom, resourcefulness, responsibility and knowledge. I would have no huge problem drawing the line at 16 to be able to separate from the rules of your parents but only if youve actually left the house and are supporting yourself.

The govt should not be involved with the assignment of rights, only ensuring everyone has all of them un-impinged and un-infringed.
I agree with everything you said.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by FullautoUSA View Post
Does the 2nd Amendment forbid the States from enacting gun control?

Yes, it is a federal Constitutional right, and since it is in the Constitution it can't be regulated by the states under the 10th amendment

Does it protect ALL guns (everything from black powder to full auto MGs)

Yes, "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" this is clearly not talking about hunting rifles, it's talking about military arms, therefore all arms are protected.

Does it protect both open and concealed carry?

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" we have the absolute infinite right to bear arms

Does it make background checks and gun registration illegal?

I would say it infringes upon someone's rights to make them have to go through the process of registration. And as far as background checks, although I'm not 100% against them, I do think that since it is "the right of the people" I think a background does infringe on the right of the people as it is the right of every individual.

Does it cover all the accessories that go with guns such as magazines, scopes, ect.

Yes, "shall not be infringed"

Does it ban ALL anti gun laws?

Yes it does. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" therefore all laws that infringe on the right to keep and bear arms violates the Constitution.
AFAIC, this pretty much says it all.

So, are our legislators learning impaired, lousy students of

history, what?
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:43 AM   #70
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AFAIC, this pretty much says it all.

So, are our legislators learning impaired, lousy students of

history, what?
I don't think it's that they were lousy history students as much as it is that they are power hungry elitists with an evil lust for power and they don't want any armed patriots standing in their way. Maybe they were bad students but its more likely the lust for power, in my opinion.
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