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Old 08-22-2013, 04:26 AM   #41
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OK. I've read enough to weigh in with my viewpoints. If you have any questions or hypotheticals for me please ask. I am well prepared to defend my views.

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Originally Posted by texaswoodworker View Post
This should be pretty interesting, but most like one sided for the most part.

Does the 2nd Amendment forbid the States from enacting gun control?
Absolutely. This is covered by shall not be infringed.

Does it protect ALL guns (everything from black powder to full auto MGs)
Yes. As well as swords, knives, machetes, spears, and all other forms of small arms.

Does it protect both open and concealed carry?
Yes. Covered by bear, and shall not be infringed. Telling me how I can bear my arms or telling me I can't bear them a certain way is an infringement on my right to bear them at all.

Does it make background checks and gun registration illegal?
An emphatic yes. Knives, spears, and swords are not subject to these limitations.

Does it cover all the accessories that go with guns such as magazines, scopes, ect.
Absolutely. My knife can be a folder, spring assisted, fixed, it a number of other options to improve functionality, guns are no different.

Does it ban ALL anti gun laws?
Yes. Again, shall not be infringed.

Let the debate begin.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason609 View Post
Personally, I don't think that a hardware store is an ideal place to buy any firearms. I'd still rather a gun store.



So, wouldn't the same apply to an 18y/o still living at home?



Right, and we see how well that works. Most families have a hard enough time taking care of themselves. Now they have to take care of someone that is mentally ill? And if it's the state caring for them, well, start enjoying those tax hikes.



Yeah, no.

Just because you can enlist at 18 does NOT make you mature or responsible.

You know how often during my time as an NCO I had to bail 18 and 19 year old privates out of jail or trouble because they got wasted?

Most 18-25 year olds either don't know what moderation means, or they just chose to ignore it.

No, being 18 doesn't mean you are mature and responsible, just means that you alone can be held accountable for your actions.
personally i don't think we need to legislate common sense or make laws that as they say are in our best interests. simply put, many 18 year old persons are not as muture as those of just twenty years ago, not even as much as those thirty years old. if they are immature enough to do stupid things, then they need to be held accountable for those actions, but not at the cost of those who are the same age but act with common sense and responsiblity.

i see lots of 18-25 year old people who don't have one lick of common sense nor any level of maturity that makes me think they are responsible enough to handle a firearm, much less own one at 18, but i still see some that are. i would not want the ones who do act responsibily to suffer because of those who don't. pretty much the same argument can be made for more gun control laws adn the actions of a few deranged and mentally unstable people who commit violent acts on other. penalizing all of the younger generation for the actions of a few irresponsible ones is the dame as trying to pass gun control laws because of the violent deeds of a few. it only effects the LAC.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:36 AM   #43
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The Bill Of Rights was added to the Constitution to out line the limits of the Federal Government. The 2nd Amendment sets forth the rights of firearms ownership and the limited intrusion by the Federal government. The individual states may pass laws regarding firearms. That said the states can not deny the individual rights assured by the Constitution . The SCOTUS has ruled in favor of gun ownership many times. Recent decrees ordered Illinois to allow concealed carry?

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:37 AM   #44
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[quote=texaswoodworker;1342672]

Quote:

It was just an example. Plus, a lot of hardware stores DID sell guns back before gun control became rampant.
True. But still rather a "specialty" store.

Quote:
A few things need to happen. The family has to be made accountable for the person's actions. That person is their responsibility. If they don't want/can't handle that responsibility, that person needs to be admitted
Family made accountable? That's yet to happen.

Quote:
As for the taxes, I'd rather my taxes go towards keeping dangerous people off the streets than going to the people who shouldn't be on welfare.
Agreed.

Quote:
Really? Who decided this? Your grouping all the bad with the good. That's exactly what the antigunners do to us. They group the criminals in with the responsible gun owners.
Who decided? How about the many instances that have proven the case?

When the majority of any group show they are not mature or responsible, society as a whole decides.

Quote:
I'm about to turn 21. I have had a handgun since I was 19. I've had long guns longer than that. I try to be as responsible with my guns as I can possibly be. There are a lot of members on this forum who are just like me. Why should we have to wait because of a few bad/irresponsible people?
I have no problem with an 18y/o carrying a handgun. As long as he/she can prove they are actually responsible enough for it. Otherwise, they should have to wait.


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If you are old enough to join the military, have access to fully automatic machine guns and explosives, and die for your country, you are old enough to buy a handgun.
Sorry. 18-20 year olds are in the E1-E3 grades (privates). They ONLY have access to firearms under supervision of NCOs. When deployed, yes, they have them all the time, but there are also many things they are not allowed to do (which goes for everyone on that deployment), but they are still supervised.

Again, just because someone is old enough to join the military, does not automatically mean they are mature or responsible. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but that's rare.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:51 AM   #45
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I know background checks seem like a good idea. The problem is this, the government will just write more/new laws about what disqualifies you. Soon none of us will meet the requirements for gun ownership. Background checks are just like all other anti gun laws, they don't work. Criminals are not getting their guns legally anyhow. Do you think all the gang bangers in Chicago passed a background check? Hell no they didn't or couldn't but they are still shooting each other. Stop making life difficult for law abiding citizens and start punishing criminals.

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Old 08-22-2013, 05:03 AM   #46
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How good are Back Ground checks? All the Federal Government has to do is shut down the system. No back ground checks no firearms transfers. Obama has been able to make up the rules as he chooses. The Republican house is too busy sharing in his hand outs to care about us.

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:25 AM   #47
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I would just like to say the following. In terms of not allowing 18-20 year olds (or as one person said, up to 25 year olds!) to buy handguns because of the immaturity of a few:

Think about this, please. I am also an NCO in the military, and I am 25 years old. I have been buying handguns for about two years now, and I was ready and mature enough for several years prior to that. Yes, I have bailed some of my troops out of jail. But I would say the number that get in trouble and do stupid stuff is less than 10%. The other 90% of the age category is doing the right thing and perfectly mature.

So you would limit the rights of 90% of the people because of the terrible actions of the 10%? That sounds like an anti-gunner argument, to me. Let's ban all ARs because one person goes on a shooting spree once every five years and MIGHT use that particular weapon. Let's limit the rights of the majority because of the injustice of the few.

Really? Is that was freedom is all about? I think not.

I don't care how immature a few 18-25 year olds are. The vast majority of that age category is perfectly mature and responsible. Guess what? 60 year olds get thrown in jail too. Should we say you have to be 61 to buy a handgun?

Yes, I am in a way pulling the 10% number out of my a*s. No, I don't have any stats right now to back it up. But I will say, after almost six years in the military, the VAST MAJORITY of young service members I have dealt with do NOT get in any trouble at all.

To limit the rights and freedoms of the majority because of the actions of the few, is, well, tyranny.

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:56 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357 View Post
I would just like to say the following. In terms of not allowing 18-20 year olds (or as one person said, up to 25 year olds!) to buy handguns because of the immaturity of a few:

Think about this, please. I am also an NCO in the military, and I am 25 years old. I have been buying handguns for about two years now, and I was ready and mature enough for several years prior to that. Yes, I have bailed some of my troops out of jail. But I would say the number that get in trouble and do stupid stuff is less than 10%. The other 90% of the age category is doing the right thing and perfectly mature.

So you would limit the rights of 90% of the people because of the terrible actions of the 10%? That sounds like an anti-gunner argument, to me. Let's ban all ARs because one person goes on a shooting spree once every five years and MIGHT use that particular weapon. Let's limit the rights of the majority because of the injustice of the few.

Really? Is that was freedom is all about? I think not.

I don't care how immature a few 18-25 year olds are. The vast majority of that age category is perfectly mature and responsible. Guess what? 60 year olds get thrown in jail too. Should we say you have to be 61 to buy a handgun?

Yes, I am in a way pulling the 10% number out of my a*s. No, I don't have any stats right now to back it up. But I will say, after almost six years in the military, the VAST MAJORITY of young service members I have dealt with do NOT get in any trouble at all.

To limit the rights and freedoms of the majority because of the actions of the few, is, well, tyranny.
Be an NCO for 10 years, and in the military for 20. You'll see that 90% drop dramatically.

As I have stated, I have no problems with 18-20y/o having a handgun. I just don't feel the majority is actually mature enough for the level of responsibility that comes with concealed carry (hell, some people well into their 30s are mature enough).
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:58 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357
I would just like to say the following. In terms of not allowing 18-20 year olds (or as one person said, up to 25 year olds!) to buy handguns because of the immaturity of a few:

Think about this, please. I am also an NCO in the military, and I am 25 years old. I have been buying handguns for about two years now, and I was ready and mature enough for several years prior to that. Yes, I have bailed some of my troops out of jail. But I would say the number that get in trouble and do stupid stuff is less than 10%. The other 90% of the age category is doing the right thing and perfectly mature.

So you would limit the rights of 90% of the people because of the terrible actions of the 10%? That sounds like an anti-gunner argument, to me. Let's ban all ARs because one person goes on a shooting spree once every five years and MIGHT use that particular weapon. Let's limit the rights of the majority because of the injustice of the few.

Really? Is that was freedom is all about? I think not.

I don't care how immature a few 18-25 year olds are. The vast majority of that age category is perfectly mature and responsible. Guess what? 60 year olds get thrown in jail too. Should we say you have to be 61 to buy a handgun?

Yes, I am in a way pulling the 10% number out of my a*s. No, I don't have any stats right now to back it up. But I will say, after almost six years in the military, the VAST MAJORITY of young service members I have dealt with do NOT get in any trouble at all.

To limit the rights and freedoms of the majority because of the actions of the few, is, well, tyranny.
As a society we mostly agree that it's not good to purchase alcohol under 21 but a gun is ok?? And maybe you know some exceptionally mature 18 year olds! But MOST of the ones I know can't manage the "rent" or 3 meals a day much less gun ownership! However, they think they know way more than most!! That is the danger!! It's a scientific fact the brain doesn't fully mature to 25 or so!! To allow 18 year olds, high school kids in some cases to go buy a handgun is a not a good idea anyway you want to slice it!!
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:04 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahall View Post
As a society we mostly agree that it's not good to purchase alcohol under 21 but a gun is ok?? And maybe you know some exceptionally mature 18 year olds! But MOST of the ones I know can't manage the "rent" or 3 meals a day much less gun ownership! However, they think they know way more than most!! That is the danger!! It's a scientific fact the brain doesn't fully mature to 25 or so!! To allow 18 year olds, high school kids in some cases to go buy a handgun is a not a good idea anyway you want to slice it!!
As a matter of fact, I believe 18 year olds should be allowed to drink legally. But that's a discussion for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Mason609 View Post
Be an NCO for 10 years, and in the military for 20. You'll see that 90% drop dramatically.

As I have stated, I have no problems with 18-20y/o having a handgun. I just don't feel the majority is actually mature enough for the level of responsibility that comes with concealed carry (hell, some people well into their 30s are mature enough).
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, in terms of the bold part.
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