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Old 12-11-2011, 09:31 PM   #11
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Actually if you go back and read my post I didn't quote you, hawkguy. In fact I liked what you said about the Mini-14 as being an "in between" gun. You made interesting points though I can't agree that a good AR needs more maintenance. I'd say a good Mini and a good AR are both very reliable with minimal maintenance.

Also it is interesting that Ruger now sells ARs. They did have the good sense to not overlap in price, if they had offered a low priced DI AR no doubt it would impact the Mini's sales. Anyway, even Ruger is onboard with both platforms - and we're all free to go with the guns we prefer.
understood, friend. like i said, i was just basing my posts on my experience with an AR only. i'm not saying that all AR's have trouble jamming/staying clean. if you have better expereinces with AR's being maintenance free, i respect that. i have better expereince with mini accuracy than many posters, so i understand where you are coming from.

i just wanted you to know i had no intention of offending anyone. mini 14 vs AR debates can get ugly, and i didn't want that to happen.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:59 PM   #12
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understood, friend. like i said, i was just basing my posts on my experience with an AR only. i'm not saying that all AR's have trouble jamming/staying clean. if you have better expereinces with AR's being maintenance free, i respect that. i have better expereince with mini accuracy than many posters, so i understand where you are coming from.

i just wanted you to know i had no intention of offending anyone. mini 14 vs AR debates can get ugly, and i didn't want that to happen.
No problem here, Hawkguy! And I also respect your opinion. We're all on the same side at FTF...
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:44 AM   #13
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"They are also known for having to be kept miraculously clean..." ??? You really, really need to google "Filthy 14"!

Nothing wrong with the Mini, I wouldn't mind having one but why do so many Mini fans keep repeating untruths about the AR?
Quentin, is this a citizens arrest? ....ROTFL

I think I was pretty clear about my opinion being "based on a lot of hearsay" and "reputation"? I think I also mentioned something about not having to worry "as much about functionality"? All semi auto's have to be cleaned at some point and can malfunction.

I wasn't a mini fan bashing an AR when I posted yesterday (I really wasn't). I bought my first mini yesterday and for all I knew it could have been pure junk. I bought it because of everything I have read and heard from mini fans, AR fan's, and people that wouldn't give you .02 for either. Now, after going to the range today, I am a mini fan.

I've never been an AR fan because I've heard they are prone to jamming for as long as I can remember (long before the internet). And I didn't hear that from mini fans. Bottom line is that AR's have a bad reputation for reliability among almost all gun fans, except for AR fans, and have from day 1. Maybe part of the reason for that reputation is that there are so many different manufactures of AR's including some poor ones? For most people, who made a gun and the gun are one in the same. So the poorly manufactured AR's are just lumped together with all AR's? Maybe AR's will just have a bad reputation from now on because of the problems when they were first issued? To be perfectly honest I don't know why AR's have such a bad reputation, but they do. Look at on the bright side though, they also have reputation for great accuracy
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:03 AM   #14
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Quentin, is this a citizens arrest? ....ROTFL

I think I was pretty clear about my opinion being "based on a lot of hearsay" and "reputation"? I think I also mentioned something about not having to worry "as much about functionality"? All semi auto's have to be cleaned at some point and can malfunction.

I wasn't a mini fan bashing an AR when I posted yesterday (I really wasn't). I bought my first mini yesterday and for all I knew it could have been pure junk. I bought it because of everything I have read and heard from mini fans, AR fan's, and people that wouldn't give you .02 for either. Now, after going to the range today, I am a mini fan.

I've never been an AR fan because I've heard they are prone to jamming for as long as I can remember (long before the internet). And I didn't hear that from mini fans. Bottom line is that AR's have a bad reputation for reliability among almost all gun fans, except for AR fans, and have from day 1. Maybe part of the reason for that reputation is that there are so many different manufactures of AR's including some poor ones? For most people, who made a gun and the gun are one in the same. So the poorly manufactured AR's are just lumped together with all AR's? Maybe AR's will just have a bad reputation from now on because of the problems when they were first issued? To be perfectly honest I don't know why AR's have such a bad reputation, but they do. Look at on the bright side though, they also have reputation for great accuracy
Y'know TLuker, nothing you said there makes any sense except that you like your new Mini-14. And it is a nice rifle, enjoy it!
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:15 AM   #15
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Y'know TLuker, nothing you said there makes any sense except that you like your new Mini-14. And it is a nice rifle, enjoy it!
I'll agree with that Quentin, but I don't wanna give you a bad reputation, so I guess it would be best if I just kept rambling on. AS if I really had an opinion as to which action is better since you should clean every gun after you shoot it and I like the mini platform as well as the ar platform but would only buy the ar first because I am familliar with it and stuff etc etc etc
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:02 PM   #16
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Y'know TLuker, nothing you said there makes any sense except that you like your new Mini-14. And it is a nice rifle, enjoy it!
You mean you didn't get the "citizens arrest" reference? Oh well.

Thanks for the last part.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:11 PM   #17
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Hafbsp If up close accuracy is all you need then simple flip a coin and call it. Both Ruger and S&W will be around to stand behind there product if you have issues. I have had a mini some years back and all most as quick sold it. just could not cozzy up to it. And I like rugers alot but never got tight with the mini and now have a m&p15 sport. Very suprised buy the accuracy. 1" groups with cheap junk 55gr ar223 ammo, a federal label. Pick up some IMI 62gr m855 and it is a bit better on accuracy and cost affective from Widner shooting supply. The m&p15 works like an ar should . With a bit of research you will find the only thing wrong is in the eyes and mind of people that never shot it. The AR snobs, and to them its junk because its not made buy old long astablished ar companies. S&W makes all the metal work in house. You know how many others do that. Parts guns for the most out there.

If what you want closer up protection but can still do the job to 150 yards. Maybe you want to add a 44 mag lever action like a marlin '94 to your list of possible rifles. Way harder hitting , with serious heavy bullet2. Weigh the same, Thinner more compact lower cost and still easy to shoot. Just add a gost ring or red dot. But I am very pleased with th M&P sport. I piscked up a few AR STONER 10 round mags from midwayusa ,cheap and they also work great with out the overhang from a 20 or 30 rounder.

If you find your self carrying on a sling. Check out Booni Safari Sling. Different kind of sling. Works on a AR and leaves your rifle hands free up and ready with needed. No hanging up swinging like so many ar slings do and not suck with it hung over a shoulder. I have one them for 20 years. Something to try.. Good luck with your choice.

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Old 01-19-2012, 02:45 AM   #18
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I'm going to weigh in here, as I have experience with both.

It depends.

If I want a tac rifle I can drop in mud, water, dirt, or human remains and be 100% sure it will fire...I'm a Mini Man.

If I want a tac rifle I can drop in mud, water, dirt, or human remains and be 97% sure it will fire...and also hit a target at 400m...I'm an AR Man.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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I'm going to weigh in here, as I have experience with both.

It depends.

If I want a tac rifle I can drop in mud, water, dirt, or human remains and be 100% sure it will fire...I'm a Mini Man.

If I want a tac rifle I can drop in mud, water, dirt, or human remains and be 97% sure it will fire...and also hit a target at 400m...I'm an AR Man.
I'm not a statistics guy myself, but IIRC the .223 and NATO rounds both drop below the minimum fps for lethal bullet expansion at that range so, while you may be able to hit something with it at 400m, it may not be effective. Am I mistaken?
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:49 PM   #20
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Statistics and the "real world" often contradict each other. I don't have my ballistics manuals at hand now, but, I do believe that both the .223 and the 5.56 rounds fall below accepted limits somewhere between 340 and 370m.

Despite the ballistics charts and statistics, I've personally witnessed one-shot body kills well in excess of 600m from .223's in both Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand, I've also personally witnessed a center of mass shot at about 90m where the bad guy ran off and up over a mountain and disappeared. Go figure...
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