mini 14 Tactical v. AR-15 - Page 11
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:14 PM   #101
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We seem to think on a similar level as it applies to things like this.

The thing is most of the people you'll run into on are thinking from an entirely different angle. To them proven involves a bench vise, lots of sitting down, and 100 rounds a year.

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Old 03-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkguy

that's cool. like i said, this was just my experience. i have seen many posts on problems with mini 14's as well....but like your AR experience...my mini hasn't had any problems at all (well, 1 jam in a 1000+ rounds). of course, i take really good care of all my guns.

and any failure in a autoloader can be the result of many factors. cleaning, ammo, etc. i had a beretta 92 that jammed up on me quite a bit the first 200 rounds....then i stopped using an after market mag i had....and it never jammed again... and my 22/45 jammed up regularly in the first 150 rounds or so. now...i've gone some 300-400 without a problem....i think it just had to break in.
Comes down to personal experience. I think where a lot of people have a disconnect is they don't take into consideration the ACTUAL use that others have experienced. I've never really "pushed" my ArmaLite, so under different conditions it may very well fail. I doubt it, but don't know for sure. Its only MY opinion. The LWRCI on the other hand, I have complete confidence in. I do a different type of shooting with it though...typically close range steel as fast as I can accurately get solid hits. I like to chase the reactive targets as well. But just recreational stuff primarily.

Some of the other guys on the forum use their rifles in a more grueling manner. And have had the opportunity to do this side by side with many brands...therefore they have different experiences than me, and different results as to reliability, etc. As you say, yours has had but one failure in 1000+ rounds. To you and many others that sounds like a well tested rifle. To others however, not so much. One of the guys I shoot with, when we go, we usually run through 1000 rounds on that trip alone. Which is why my 5.56 has many thousands through it and the 7.62 has only a couple thousand. I can't afford to burn that much 7.62.

The individual user will have different opinions based on personal experience I guess is what I'm trying to say. I usually defer my judgement to those with the most experience on the platform. Be it mini or AR.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #103
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I will try to get back to the initial point of the thread regarding the Mini and the AR.
I have had several Minis and they are good little rifles and fun to shoot. It all depends on personal preference and what you like. We all do not drive Chevys and some of us drive Fords. Why! because for one reason or another we prefer one over the other. If nothing else it is what we first purchased and had good luck with it or what Dad drove. So I relate that to this post concerning the Minis and the ARs. First of all I will dispel the fact that the AR is unreliable. I have a Rock River AR that has had more than 20,000 rounds through it even to the point that I have re-barreled it due to eventual throat erosion from use. Yes I run it a little damp with a good gun oil type lube. (No Grease!) In all the time I have had it the AR has had no more than two malfunctions or failures and those probably due to magazine or ammunition not the rifle. I believe the thread started our asking for opinions on the comparison of the two rifles. I have had at least three Minis over the years. They were reliable but I had two issues that I did not prefer. One was accuracy (being an accuracy freak!) and the other was the changing and inserting the magazine with the need to get it properly located and then rocked back into location. I found the AR to be much more easy and faster to insert the magazine. And of course the accuracy of the AR particularly the Rock River (16" Elite CAR A-4) I purchased which was my first AR and shoots a 1 MOA (1") or less at 100 yards off the bags. However giving credit where credit is due regarding a tactical defense gun a 1 MOA is not a requirement. A rifle that will shoot 3 MOA or less from the bags as a test is good enough. I understand from what I have heard that the Mini has came a long way regarding accuracy lately. The other issue with the AR is that it is so versatile and you can improve the weapon later as money is available. There are so many possibilities and accessories for them. And also taken into consideration the interchangeability of parts. Also in the case of my Rock River the trigger being a Two Stage is phenomenal! This is my opinion of why I prefer the AR. But keeping in mind the Minis are good little rifles. So leaves it to what you like best and want to do with the weapon.

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Old 03-10-2012, 07:00 PM   #104
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Personal preference doesn't mean much to me. It wouldn't matter what I liked personally as I'm more concerned with what works best. I'll learn whatever platform has the most potential. I don't have any emotional ties to any firearm. When it's boiled down they are just tools and/or methods of entertainment.

Someone eluded that the mini 14 is the more proven system because a handful of LEOs use them. Well we all know how valid that is.

I guess I should ask what areas the mini 14 has more potential than the AR.

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Old 03-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
I guess I should ask what areas the mini 14 has more potential than the AR.
I think you are hitting on my reasons for leaning toward the Mini-14...

The AR platform is almost a perfect toaster. It exceeds the Mini in versatility with it's tremendous aftermarket support, long list of available configurations, easy barrel swaps, endless options and long battlefield history.

The Mini has never been fielded in war at such a large scale. It is painful to accessorize. There is limited aftermarket support. There have been maybe a dozen factory configurations sold.

The Mini is about 35 years old, coming to market in 1977. It does get to draw on the heritage of the M14/M1a/Garand, but not much of it's own.
The AR is about 50 years old, originally developed in the late 50's.

I'll forever argue that the Mini has better inherent reliability, and the ARs own history and reputation are the testament to that. Accuracy, for me, is a dead heat. Only match grade ARs routinely excel the norm for a Mini. I know this from shooting both a good deal, However, the Mini is down right difficult to live with in every other aspect.

It's that challenge that endears the Mini to me so much. I am not happy unless I have to work on something. That's why the Mini is my preference.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:59 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottybaccus

I think you are hitting on my reasons for leaning toward the Mini-14...

The AR platform is almost a perfect toaster. It exceeds the Mini in versatility with it's tremendous aftermarket support, long list of available configurations, easy barrel swaps, endless options and long battlefield history.

The Mini has never been fielded in war at such a large scale. It is painful to accessorize. There is limited aftermarket support. There have been maybe a dozen factory configurations sold.

The Mini is about 35 years old, coming to market in 1977. It does get to draw on the heritage of the M14/M1a/Garand, but not much of it's own.
The AR is about 50 years old, originally developed in the late 50's.

I'll forever argue that the Mini has better inherent reliability, and the ARs own history and reputation are the testament to that. Accuracy, for me, is a dead heat. Only match grade ARs routinely excel the norm for a Mini. I know this from shooting both a good deal, However, the Mini is down right difficult to live with in every other aspect.

It's that challenge that endears the Mini to me so much. I am not happy unless I have to work on something. That's why the Mini is my preference.
This is a great post bc it is an opinion backed by FACTS.

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Old 03-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottybaccus

I think you are hitting on my reasons for leaning toward the Mini-14...

The AR platform is almost a perfect toaster. It exceeds the Mini in versatility with it's tremendous aftermarket support, long list of available configurations, easy barrel swaps, endless options and long battlefield history.

The Mini has never been fielded in war at such a large scale. It is painful to accessorize. There is limited aftermarket support. There have been maybe a dozen factory configurations sold.

The Mini is about 35 years old, coming to market in 1977. It does get to draw on the heritage of the M14/M1a/Garand, but not much of it's own.
The AR is about 50 years old, originally developed in the late 50's.

I'll forever argue that the Mini has better inherent reliability, and the ARs own history and reputation are the testament to that. Accuracy, for me, is a dead heat. Only match grade ARs routinely excel the norm for a Mini. I know this from shooting both a good deal, However, the Mini is down right difficult to live with in every other aspect.

It's that challenge that endears the Mini to me so much. I am not happy unless I have to work on something. That's why the Mini is my preference.
I'll take something better in every way including accuracy out of the box over something I have to work on to make run as well.

If the mini is so accurate why is there so much effort behind making a mini accurate?

As far as history goes, you can dwell on how things were after fielding the 16 before it could be fully developed. I'll take the proven weapon system with better overall performance.
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"The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together."
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:34 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
I'll take something better in every way including accuracy out of the box over something I have to work on to make run as well.

If the mini is so accurate why is there so much effort behind making a mini accurate?
tAs far as history goes, you can dwell on how things were after fielding the 16 before it could be fully developed. I'll take the proven weapon system with better overall performance.
i can agree on SOME aspects of the AR having a better performance, but imo....overall is still VERY debatable.

AR's are a bit more accurate (from a bench standpoint). from a practical/real world standpoint, the difference isn't as much. here's a nice vid on the tactical mini.


here's a good read about the new 580+ series minis. the reviewer is getting sub 2" and 1" groups....only mod is a trigger job. as accuarte as an AR? no, but normally more accurate than every other semi carbine except AR. the bad rep for accuracy (and the stickies you keep referring to) are based much more on the mini before its improvements.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_mini14_review.htm

honestly, i wouldn't argue that the AR-15 is a better combat platform, i think it is. but a better overall rifle.....i still think that boils down to preferences and applications myself.

in my personal experience, it still seems to hold true that the AR is a bit more accurate & the mini a bit more reliable and matainance free. sorry, but from my experiences you simply cannot convince me the AR is "better in every way" than the mini 14. i just haven't been THAT blown away by the AR myself.

yet
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:58 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51 View Post
Comes down to personal experience. I think where a lot of people have a disconnect is they don't take into consideration the ACTUAL use that others have experienced. I've never really "pushed" my ArmaLite, so under different conditions it may very well fail. I doubt it, but don't know for sure. Its only MY opinion. The LWRCI on the other hand, I have complete confidence in. I do a different type of shooting with it though...typically close range steel as fast as I can accurately get solid hits. I like to chase the reactive targets as well. But just recreational stuff primarily.

Some of the other guys on the forum use their rifles in a more grueling manner. And have had the opportunity to do this side by side with many brands...therefore they have different experiences than me, and different results as to reliability, etc. As you say, yours has had but one failure in 1000+ rounds. To you and many others that sounds like a well tested rifle. To others however, not so much. One of the guys I shoot with, when we go, we usually run through 1000 rounds on that trip alone. Which is why my 5.56 has many thousands through it and the 7.62 has only a couple thousand. I can't afford to burn that much 7.62.

The individual user will have different opinions based on personal experience I guess is what I'm trying to say. I usually defer my judgement to those with the most experience on the platform. Be it mini or AR.
generally, i trust my personal experience with a firearm more than the opinions of those i don't know very well. however, you can sometimes get a good overall idea of things from the internet. i tend to prefer professional reviews or reviews of posters I KNOW really know their stuff. on this site, idk who is honest and unbias and who might have a grudge of some sort for a firearm or company.

i know some guys on some sites that speak very honestly about their AR's. and the general consensus i get from them is...AR's are very reliable IF taken very good care of. they show me 1-2 inch groups from cheap AR's. and i have seen sub .5 from better ones.

i also know some guys who speak very honestly of mini's as well. the new ones start at 2-3 MOA out of box and the older ones might shoot anywhere from MOA to 7-8 inch groups. these guys are the ones that taught me to invest minimal into a mini (some time, $100 or less) to get them to shoot pretty darn good for a semi carbine. (mine does 2", 1-1.5 on my best days). but the only mini that will touch an AR's accuracy is the target model.

but overall, i think if you have had outstanding (or poor) PERSONAL experience with an AR or mini...that trumps everything else.

i've had great a great experience thus far with my mini. its a great little gun imo.

but i also see your point....its not only experiences, but the different expectations we have for the firearms. that can be very indivdual.

btw, good post.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:00 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottybaccus View Post
I think you are hitting on my reasons for leaning toward the Mini-14...

The AR platform is almost a perfect toaster. It exceeds the Mini in versatility with it's tremendous aftermarket support, long list of available configurations, easy barrel swaps, endless options and long battlefield history.

The Mini has never been fielded in war at such a large scale. It is painful to accessorize. There is limited aftermarket support. There have been maybe a dozen factory configurations sold.

The Mini is about 35 years old, coming to market in 1977. It does get to draw on the heritage of the M14/M1a/Garand, but not much of it's own.
The AR is about 50 years old, originally developed in the late 50's.

I'll forever argue that the Mini has better inherent reliability, and the ARs own history and reputation are the testament to that. Accuracy, for me, is a dead heat. Only match grade ARs routinely excel the norm for a Mini. I know this from shooting both a good deal, However, the Mini is down right difficult to live with in every other aspect.

It's that challenge that endears the Mini to me so much. I am not happy unless I have to work on something. That's why the Mini is my preference.
good post, i like to tinker as well, though i am very much an amateur in this regard.

once i set up my mini like i wanted to, and got it shooting well...i was kind of disappointed that it was all done.....
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