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Old 05-31-2012, 01:14 PM   #11
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I think this mini review is a good representation of what the riflr is capable of. Remember ir is a carbine.

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Old 05-31-2012, 01:15 PM   #12
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Thanks I had watched these already - but wanted to get more opinions.

My problem is that I can not see paying $1000 plus for a "quality" AR 15 even though I am pretty familar with the gun (I carried one alot of years)
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:50 PM   #13
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Since I think it would be hard to put an optic on the gun and use the iron sights are there any products (Iron sights that you would recommend)
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumbernater View Post
I think this mini review is a good representation of what the riflr is capable of. Remember ir is a carbine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej39umHaB08&feature=player_detailpage
Good overview of the new improved Mini-14s.

I had one back in 1975.

The new ones look like they have a better heat shield on them, and also it says the barrel has been beefed up and improved.

I like the looks of it, with the M-1 bolt and M-14 design.

I vastly prefer the design of the Mini-14 to any of the ARs. Not sure how the two compare accuracy wise, at 500 yds?

I wish someone would do a side by side comparison of them with iron sights at 500 yds.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHickam View Post
Since I think it would be hard to put an optic on the gun and use the iron sights are there any products (Iron sights that you would recommend)
It already comes with an M-14 type iron sighting system.

The front sight is a post, protected with wings, and the rear sight is a peep, which is adjustible.

This gives you a good combat sight system for a carbine, with the circular peep helping your eyes to focus, so you naturally tend to center the front post onto your target.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #16
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The mini 14 is not a 500 yard rifle it is a carbine. 200 maybe 300 yrds would be practical. I have a old mini 181 series put a mo rod and a mo reaper on her she shoots just as good as the new barrel ones. And I think she is more reliable with the old bolt setup.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #17
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I keep reading the word "carbine" when discussing the accuracy of the Mini as if having a barrel less than 20 inches is an excuse for poor accuracy.

In general terms, carbines often have barrels no longer than 20 inches, and their butt stocks are often on the short side as well. They're usually light and easy to handle, which lends them to cavalry use.

Being short and easy to handle has nothing to do with accuracy. Velocity, yes, accuracy no.

A quote from Chuck Hawks:

Quote:
It is worth mentioning that a longer barrel is not inherently more accurate than a short barrel. Intrinsic accuracy is a matter of quality, not length.
Here is a velocity and accuracy test with progressively shorter barrels. Not that even down to 10 inches accuracy was still sub MOA.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

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Old 06-01-2012, 12:51 PM   #18
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Plumenator - How is the low light capability of the gun with the stock sights?
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:05 AM   #19
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Hey Hey, just thought I'd add my 2 cents..

I spent 18 years in the US Army, and .. I have a mini! ..

I did a video shooting the mini at 100 yards.. I'll link it again.. and here's a pic of my working on Memorial day. As others have said, the pull is a bit long (with the standard stock, the ATI is adjustable), and recoil
*slightly* more than the AR, but I can keep up with most of them .. =)
I do have to disagree with Gundoc on one point, perhaps I was lucky, OR the stocks had improved on the 581's, the stock fit on mine is anything but sloppy.. again, maybe I just got a lucky stock . =)
I am guilty of being a mag grabber when not firing off the bench, and yes, with NON Ruger magazines it will cause feed issues.

Oh, on that note, Mag swaps are a tad slower if you are concerned with that, I typically use my new mag to detach the empty magazine.. there's a video on Rugers site demonstrating that. Basically you use the new mag to engage the mag release and push off the spent magazine then insert the new magazine. A bit akward until you get used to it..




Video:

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Old 06-03-2012, 02:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve4102 View Post
I keep reading the word "carbine" when discussing the accuracy of the Mini as if having a barrel less than 20 inches is an excuse for poor accuracy.

In general terms, carbines often have barrels no longer than 20 inches, and their butt stocks are often on the short side as well. They're usually light and easy to handle, which lends them to cavalry use.

Being short and easy to handle has nothing to do with accuracy. Velocity, yes, accuracy no.

A quote from Chuck Hawks:



Here is a velocity and accuracy test with progressively shorter barrels. Not that even down to 10 inches accuracy was still sub MOA.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
I agree with your point in theory, but I'm not sure about practicality? Carbines in general are design and intended for shorter distances. Even the caliber is selected for shorter distances. I would put the effective range of a .223 at 300 yards (and 300 yards might be pushing it). It can go further but I wouldn't call it effective any further out? But by giving up range with a .223 you get a bullet with really light recoil allowing for more rapid accurate fire, and you can carry more ammo because it weights less than say a .308.

The design of a carbine itself limits its effective range. A shorter barrel will have less velocity which reduces effective range even more. Just using a semi auto, which most carbines are, is also going to limit accuracy. The ammo must be looser fitting in semi autos to ensure reliable chambering of the round (that's why you full length size for semi auto's and neck size for bolt actions when reloading). Looser tolerances in mating parts also often makes for more reliable functioning of mechanical devices (Honda cars in general have very loose tolerances and that is in part why they are so reliable).

Now for the quality part. Higher quality with accuracy cost more money. It costs the manufacturer more and it costs the consumer more. It costs more because everything must be more precise. The machining dimensions, the fit, the ammo, and etc. must all be more precise. Carbines in general aren't really worth that extra price for accuracy when their intended use is relatively short ranges to begin with. My mini doesn't have the smoothest barrel in the world but I didn't expect it to. The barrel as produced was capable of practical accuracy (< 2 MOA) with off the self factory ammo. I'm breaking the barrel in to make it smoother and more accurate but I do that with all my rifles (1 MOA after breaking in the barrel). Ruger could have put hand lapped barrels on them but then that would have cost more money and really wouldn't have been a benefit for most people that buy one.

As for just quality, and forgetting accuracy, I'm willing to sacrifice some accuracy in this rifle to have a gun with looser fitting parts but functions flawlessly in a variety of conditions. I don't have to worry about cleaning as much as I would if the parts were tight fitting and precise (AR v. AK). I think that is a sacrifice that almost all people that buy a carbine (semi auto) are willing to make, and I think that is why most people expect less accuracy from a carbine?

The accuracy of my mini out of the box was more than sufficient for my uses and the ranges I plan on shooting it. It also has functioned flawlessly. For me that makes it a quality product, and as a quality engineer I have pretty high expectations when it comes to quality.

Last edited by TLuker; 06-03-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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