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Old 07-06-2012, 07:08 AM   #11
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The S&W is aluminum framed and the Glocks are Glocks. A steel frame would indeed help, but I think time is what she needs.

All of her guns are in .40S&W. One of the Glocks is compensated and the concussion was way too loud for her.

A different stance would probably help but dealing with the cross-eye issue makes it difficult to get her in a proper stance. I am not an instructor by any means, just a hillbilly who is trying to help her out.
What do you consider proper stance? Are you haveing her square up to the target w/ feet shoulder width apart knees bent and elbows locked w/ her chin tucked like a boxer?

Either purchase the 40's from her so she can purchase a 9mm or find someone to take them off her hands. Do they offer a 9mm conversion for one of her Glocks? You never mentioned what model the Glocks were.

If the comp barrel works she may just have to get used to the noise. If she ever uses it in the house it wont matter being as a non comp is to loud to begin w/. What's a few more dbs when you're already way over the threshold?
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:13 PM   #12
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What do you consider proper stance? Are you haveing her square up to the target w/ feet shoulder width apart knees bent and elbows locked w/ her chin tucked like a boxer?

Either purchase the 40's from her so she can purchase a 9mm or find someone to take them off her hands. Do they offer a 9mm conversion for one of her Glocks? You never mentioned what model the Glocks were.

If the comp barrel works she may just have to get used to the noise. If she ever uses it in the house it wont matter being as a non comp is to loud to begin w/. What's a few more dbs when you're already way over the threshold?
I am purchasing whatever she decides she does not want to keep and if she changes her mind they will always be available for her to purchase back. I want her to be able to have them in case she wants one or all for sentimental reasons, though that is not in her reasoning right now. She did shoot my .380. which shoots similar to a 9mm (I do not own a 9mm) and she does not like that yet. I am bringing her up slowly so that she does not get scared off of guns. That is my main focus right now with the secondary focus of not letting her develop bad habits.

She has a Glock 22 Gen 2 and a 22C Gen 3 and an S&W 4013. She is a long way off from shooting any of these at this point. Keep in mind that she was terrified of guns and had never fired a shot up until the 4th. My goal is to change that.

If necessary we will go to a local indoor range where she can try a variety of rental guns in different calibers once she gets comfortable being around them.

We tried the Weaver stance (that is what you describe, is it not?) and what I think is called the isoscles stance as well as bench rest. With all of them we had to deal with her sight picture first and foremost. That was the overriding challenge.

Since she has two Glock 22's, I will not be having her shoot the compensated one any time soon. There is a disadvantage to the comp in HD and that in that the flash from the compensator renders the potential victim blind for some critical seconds in low light situations such as one would encounter in HD. If there is more than one perp, or if there is an innocent behind the perp (she has a young teenage daughter) who could get accidentally shot because of the temporary blinding caused by the compensator. Note that this is not my experience, just some cautions that I have been advised of.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:12 PM   #13
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First off, you're a good man to help with this Woman in teaching her to defend herself--in any way she might know how or wanting to learn how. Now, it seems she doesn't like what she has available, so now you need to concentrate on either MAKING her something she can handle and is comfortable with, OR making a new purchase by selling off her other guns. In making something, you might look at a 10/22 and all the options they have available, such as a used rifle(cheaper), and tearing it down and putting on a short 16-1/4"(legal length) barrel, along with a light synthetic stock, maybe in a tactical AR type, along with a lightened trigger and a pistol scope to keep it from her eye, and one that also has an optional "Illuminated Crosshair(Dot) along with regular crosshairs for daytime shooting(practicing) or incase of battery rundowns, which you'll need to show her how to change out batteries and for the need to replace batteries every so often for if needed at nite. Remember, this is for DEFENSE. NOT FOR LOOKS.
Now if this doesn't work on her wanting for you to build a gun, how about taking a look at maybe a KelTec or something similar in a 9mm that takes Glock magazines? These little rifles are built very good and being a rifle in smaller caliber, you can show her that you don't need to shoulder it, but can also use it from the waist if need be, and with longer barrel, she won't have all that loud ringing in her ears from the short barrelled pistols, nor the heavy recoil on her wrists that pistols give.
If none of these suggestions work from you or people on this forum, she needs to enroll in a WOMAN'S SHOOTING CLASS on self defense, because until she learns what can/will happen from other Women and their stories, she'll never learn what you're trying to teach her, and she needs to know, that there's a time to be a Woman and a time to be a Predator for when her life depends on it. I would also look into maybe getting a short YOUTH 410 pump shotgun. With slugs/00buck--I'll guarantee no attacker will notice when the shells start to being racked as to what size gun she has. She'll just need to learn to point it in general direction and not having a need to shoulder gun. Shouldering a gun is when you have time---if you don't have the time, then what? She needs to learn there's many ways to shoot a gun when you don't have the time. As to a 22LR NOT being effective, is just plain wrong in their thinking, and with a few 25 round magazines, you have a lot of effectiveness to back it up and still keep rifle somewhat lightweight. There will also need to be a time when handling a gun, as to not just shoot at the slightest noise/movement, but to wait for the best opportunity to make that shot count----just like hunting.
Del

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Old 07-06-2012, 07:22 PM   #14
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I am purchasing whatever she decides she does not want to keep and if she changes her mind they will always be available for her to purchase back. I want her to be able to have them in case she wants one or all for sentimental reasons, though that is not in her reasoning right now. She did shoot my .380. which shoots similar to a 9mm (I do not own a 9mm) and she does not like that yet. I am bringing her up slowly so that she does not get scared off of guns. That is my main focus right now with the secondary focus of not letting her develop bad habits.

She has a Glock 22 Gen 2 and a 22C Gen 3 and an S&W 4013. She is a long way off from shooting any of these at this point. Keep in mind that she was terrified of guns and had never fired a shot up until the 4th. My goal is to change that.

If necessary we will go to a local indoor range where she can try a variety of rental guns in different calibers once she gets comfortable being around them.

We tried the Weaver stance (that is what you describe, is it not?) and what I think is called the isoscles stance as well as bench rest. With all of them we had to deal with her sight picture first and foremost. That was the overriding challenge.

Since she has two Glock 22's, I will not be having her shoot the compensated one any time soon. There is a disadvantage to the comp in HD and that in that the flash from the compensator renders the potential victim blind for some critical seconds in low light situations such as one would encounter in HD. If there is more than one perp, or if there is an innocent behind the perp (she has a young teenage daughter) who could get accidentally shot because of the temporary blinding caused by the compensator. Note that this is not my experience, just some cautions that I have been advised of.
Modified Weaver (more squared up).

Sounds like you're doing something very nice for the lady.

—---------

I would not recommend a pistol scope or .22. A magnified optic would be a poor choice on any firearm for her purpose.
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:48 AM   #15
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First off, you're a good man to help with this Woman in teaching her to defend herself--in any way she might know how or wanting to learn how. Now, it seems she doesn't like what she has available, so now you need to concentrate on either MAKING her something she can handle and is comfortable with, OR making a new purchase by selling off her other guns. In making something, you might look at a 10/22 and all the options they have available, such as a used rifle(cheaper), and tearing it down and putting on a short 16-1/4"(legal length) barrel, along with a light synthetic stock, maybe in a tactical AR type, along with a lightened trigger and a pistol scope to keep it from her eye, and one that also has an optional "Illuminated Crosshair(Dot) along with regular crosshairs for daytime shooting(practicing) or incase of battery rundowns, which you'll need to show her how to change out batteries and for the need to replace batteries every so often for if needed at nite. Remember, this is for DEFENSE. NOT FOR LOOKS.
Now if this doesn't work on her wanting for you to build a gun, how about taking a look at maybe a KelTec or something similar in a 9mm that takes Glock magazines? These little rifles are built very good and being a rifle in smaller caliber, you can show her that you don't need to shoulder it, but can also use it from the waist if need be, and with longer barrel, she won't have all that loud ringing in her ears from the short barrelled pistols, nor the heavy recoil on her wrists that pistols give.
If none of these suggestions work from you or people on this forum, she needs to enroll in a WOMAN'S SHOOTING CLASS on self defense, because until she learns what can/will happen from other Women and their stories, she'll never learn what you're trying to teach her, and she needs to know, that there's a time to be a Woman and a time to be a Predator for when her life depends on it. I would also look into maybe getting a short YOUTH 410 pump shotgun. With slugs/00buck--I'll guarantee no attacker will notice when the shells start to being racked as to what size gun she has. She'll just need to learn to point it in general direction and not having a need to shoulder gun. Shouldering a gun is when you have time---if you don't have the time, then what? She needs to learn there's many ways to shoot a gun when you don't have the time. As to a 22LR NOT being effective, is just plain wrong in their thinking, and with a few 25 round magazines, you have a lot of effectiveness to back it up and still keep rifle somewhat lightweight. There will also need to be a time when handling a gun, as to not just shoot at the slightest noise/movement, but to wait for the best opportunity to make that shot count----just like hunting.
Del
Um. Yeah. OK. At this point I am not even thinking of building something for her. If that is necessary in the future then I will address that at that time. I am trying to get introducing her to shooting first and getting her comfortable with guns. That is all at this point.

She has experienced an attempted rape. She knows.

I am not going to even think of recommending a .22LR firearm for her as a HD gun. Not gonna happen for a couple of reasons. One being penetration, she lives in an urban neighborhood and a .22 LR can penetrate neighboring homes, let alone the walls within her home. Also, here in CA she is limited to 10 round magazines, period.


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Modified Weaver (more squared up).

Sounds like you're doing something very nice for the lady.

—---------

I would not recommend a pistol scope or .22. A magnified optic would be a poor choice on any firearm for her purpose.
No optics on an HD gun. Also, as I said above, not gonna recommend a .22 for HD.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:55 AM   #16
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I'm sorry VikingDad. I didn't mean to say to go out and get her a 10/22 just to build up for her. It was just a possible suggestion, in that She has other options to go with, if she doesn't like pistols or what guns she has available. I am confused about one thing. You're concerned about a 22LR pentrating a home's wall, but if you teach her what she needs, and she has a large caliber gun, well then what? You think a larger caliber like a 25ACP, 38sp, 380 or 9mm won't then, go through a wall? That's just false. You mean to tell me a home with drywall, insulation, 2x4, and a 3/4" outside barrier, be it wood, stucco(which is a concrete variant), brick, can't stop a 22 from going through, then there's something wrong with how your homes are built. Something also wrong here with thinking that a 22LR won't make for a good HD also. 22LR's have been bringing down animals as large as 250lb Deer for a hundred years without going through the other side. Just saying. Even getting more magazines to load up, isn't against the law, even if magazines are limited to 10 shells. BUT, I agree on one thing. Helping her, as this is the most important thing, and I wish you as the Instructor, and Her, as your Pupil in the best of luck.
As to MikeJ, a pistol scope can help a cross dominate eyed person in that you can get the scopes in low 1 or 2 power, and with it away from your eyes, you keep both eyes open with gun in arm stretched, 2-handed position. This is for those that can't make out both rear/front sight in rifles/pistols and just don have the eyesight they once had. Just like a DOT/shotgun type scope on a scout rifle. However, with some training a person can learn to develop a stronger eye opposite side, but it does take time and is uncomfortable. I went through something like this growing up. My whole Family is right handed, but I'm left handed, so when it came to shooting guns, I either learned, or I didn't get to go hunting, and growing up on a farm, you learned to handle guns at a very young age, and used what you had handed to you. Now I can shoot from both sides, but with so much training to shoot right-handed guns over the years, I'm now more comfortable with my right side shooting, and all I have now, is right-handed rifles.
Del

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:22 AM   #17
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Del,
No worries. You were just getting way ahead of me. I'm not about to get into a debate over the suitability of .22 LR as a defensive round. Suffice it to say that I will not be recommending it, but I appreciate your input.

I was at a LGS yesterday and saw a Taurus 410/.45 Colt carbine. This looks like a contender and I am no fan of Taurus. http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=190&category=15&toggle=&breadcrumbs eries=

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:41 AM   #18
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Though that thing looks cool it is not what I'd consider ideal for your purpose.

Head over to the AR forum and read a current thread on using .45 out of a carbine. I won't interject w/ my opinion. I will remind you that 5.56 has been protecting the civilized world for quite some time.

If I didn't have a 4 y/o that's what I would use.

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:51 AM   #19
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Though that thing looks cool it is not what I'd consider ideal for your purpose.

Head over to the AR forum and read a current thread on using .45 out of a carbine. I won't interject w/ my opinion. I will remind you that 5.56 has been protecting the civilized world for quite some time.

If I didn't have a 4 y/o that's what I would use.
I wouldn't even begin to think of using a 5.56 for HD. I have a bunker set up on my home range made out of a stack of railroad ties with a dirt berm behind the stack. 5.56 rounds penetrate fully through the railroad ties easily, every round. I have not tried it but it wouldn't surprise me if they would penetrate 2 railroad ties as well. These railroad ties are hardwood, not pine or some other soft wood. Using 5.56 would be foolish if you have any neighbors within an unobstructed mile, and even then......

.45 ACP is a different story. Large frontal area, slow moving, will put down any perp in the same room. Nice to shoot as well. Still beyond her abilities at this point though.

I was thinking the Rossi/Taurus .45 Colt/410 would be loaded with 410 buckshot. We showed her our 410 shooting at paper from 20 yards with birdshot. She did not want to try it that day though.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:27 AM   #20
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I wouldn't even begin to think of using a 5.56 for HD. I have a bunker set up on my home range made out of a stack of railroad ties with a dirt berm behind the stack. 5.56 rounds penetrate fully through the railroad ties easily, every round. I have not tried it but it wouldn't surprise me if they would penetrate 2 railroad ties as well. These railroad ties are hardwood, not pine or some other soft wood. Using 5.56 would be foolish if you have any neighbors within an unobstructed mile, and even then......

.45 ACP is a different story. Large frontal area, slow moving, will put down any perp in the same room. Nice to shoot as well. Still beyond her abilities at this point though.

I was thinking the Rossi/Taurus .45 Colt/410 would be loaded with 410 buckshot. We showed her our 410 shooting at paper from 20 yards with birdshot. She did not want to try it that day though.
Do a little more research on 5.56 and the virtual plethora of ammunition available in the caliber. You'll be surprised.

Ask yourself who uses 5.56. What does your local LEOs carry to pick up where their handguns fall short. Do you think they would carry something that was dangerous? No. Departments first concerns are liability and lawsuits. How about on the Federal level? They moved from SMGs to the M16/AR family. Pistol rounds are not as effective and they actually penetrate more. Railroad ties are not flesh, bone, and blood.
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